Is PayPal coming to South Africa in April at FNB

Well, who knows what’s going on here – I blogged about calling PayPal and finding out about what’s up with PayPal in South Africa and this has been one of the hottest trending topics on my website, receiving 606 comments already and growing daily.

Anyway, tonight people started talking about it on Twitter, saying that PayPal in coming to South Africa in April 2010, this seems to come from First National Bank (FNB) insiders.

@caryljr retweeted a tweet made by @mattduplessis, where he said “PayPal is launching in SA in April through FNB”, this tweet was actually via @ratmo, @Mpieters and @MarcForrest.

Interestingly, when you visit @MattDuplessis website, you get a “This blog has been archived or suspended”, not a good start. I did some more snooping and it seems that this all started via @ratmo, who tweeted “@Mpieters @MarcForrest paypal is launching in SA in April through FNB”.

@mozami, who I know, tweeted about receiving information from an “insider” about PayPal being here in Q1 via FNB.

@clivesimpkins seems to be talking about this topic too, his latest tweet “probably a smart viral campaign by FNB. CEO, wicked man, sent back only a smile in response to my question”

Now, I’ve heard these “rumours” for some time now, before anyone said anyone said any of these words “paypal”, “south africa”, “FNB”, “April”, and to be honest, I’m still not sure it’s going to happen – Yes, PayPal are aware that we’re all eager, but they’ve known that for years, what changed? I could like a whole bunch of sarcastic comments, but I think it’s safer if I don’t.

Please leave a comment if you know anything..

Click here to follow me on Twitter and I’ll keep you posted on this topic.

About the author:




Christopher is the founder of iMod - Most of his time is spent building websites and pushing the limits with Search Engine Optimization. You can follow him on Twitter @ChristopherM

Chris M has written: 4130 posts.

64 Responses to “Is PayPal coming to South Africa in April at FNB”

  1. Yeah dude, I’ll believe it when I see it. Especially when a bank is involved.

  2. Agreed, I’ll believe it when I see it too!

  3. I really hope this happens, but don’t want to get my hopes up. I wouldn’t be surprised if this turned into nothing.

  4. I will believe this when a press release is made by either fnb or paypal.

  5. Ye, adding PayPal into the South African mix would open up so many excellent doors for all of us, but as you said Bret, I don’t want to get my hopes up either. But anyway, imagine Nedbank, Standard Bank and ABSA is FNB claims the rights, lol!

    @Gerhard – You’re right, now would be a good time!

  6. I have confirmed that the are busy purchasing HP server’s for the project

  7. Hi ratmo – Please give us some more information, who are you, what is your involvement, who did you talk to?

    Please understand that this is a very sensitive topic..

    Thanks for coming in and sharing!!!

  8. I’ve been waiting for this FOREVER!! If It is true I will love FNB forever. We really need paypal!!! It’s PATHETIC that we don’t have it yet.

  9. I must admit, I am happy that I’m with FNB, so if it does happen, will be jet set ready!

  10. Who cares, why do we need it here when they accept local credit cards?

  11. Oh buggrit. Yes, my blog’s been archived; I stopped updating it a few months back. Also, my original tweet contained the attribution trail back to @ratmo, looks like it got stripped off in some of the retweets – apologies for any confusion on that score, in retrospect perhaps I should have RT’d it as is.

    Anyway, so I’ve had a Paypal account linked to my credit card for years – what does ‘Paypal coming to SA’ mean to you? Ability to receive payments/cash from overseas?

  12. Oh, right – that makes sense.

  13. @Matt – Get updating! ;)

    Well, I started a thread a while ago when I called PayPal and the thread went on to receiving 606 comments from South Africans all interested in various parts of it, it’s hard to isolate what it all means in one go, best bet is to have a read of some of the comments, that’s if you have time – http://imod.co.za/2008/02/13/i-called-paypalcom-today-from-south-africa-and-asked-wasssup/ (it’s long!)

  14. @Vlad: It’s not just about buying stuff online. It’s about selling stuff, including your services. And anyway, only 7% of South African internet users have credit cards. Only 11% of South Africans have fixed internet access. That means about 992 out of every 1000 South Africans care. Of the other eight, seven realise they’d be better off if the other 992 were, too. The remaining one, who doesn’t care, is you.

  15. @Ivo – Thanks for coming through and addressing our concerns so accurately, I appreciate it!

  16. Hi Chris,

    FNB has no official comment at this stage.

    Regards
    RB

  17. Thanks RbJacobs, please do let me know if you hear anything else, I’d love to be first to blog about it..

  18. Me thinks ratmo is just a shit stirrer. (sorry if you are not, but can you blame me for thinking that due to your very informative one-liners).

    Has anybody also considered that April also starts off with April Fools day.

    Will only believe it when an official news report is issued.

  19. Chris asked “what has changed?”. Perhaps that the soccer world cup has come to SA? That might be enough of a reason to get Paypal to set up shop here. A lot of people with Paypal accounts will be in SA soon.

  20. I never Knew how much of a viral storm this would cause. I’m by no means a shit stirrer.
    This all started off by me informing 2 peeps about some cool news I heard

  21. I really hope that this will happen. The only concern I have if a bank is linked to PayPal is that they will want us to stand unlimited surety, for when PayPal reverse payments. And we know they do.

  22. Here’s the fin24.com article..

    First National Bank (FNB) executives are expected to convene a fiery meeting on Monday morning following leaks on messaging system, Twitter, that it was bringing Paypal to South Africa by April.

    Twitter was abuzz with speculation on Sunday that PayPal would finally be gracing South Africa’s shores later this year.

    PayPal is a service aimed at facilitating secure online trade and is viewed as a vital step in seeing South African web offerings become a bigger part of the global economy.

    The technology allows users to shop online without revealing their credit card details. This ensures a more secure platform for online transacting and will be a step forward in promoting online trade for South African businesses.

    Importantly, the service would make it easier for local retailers to receive payments from overseas customers. The technology has to date received a lukewarm reception from the South African Reserve Bank which is concerned it flaunts foreign exchange regulations.

    Asked whether it would be a positive for South African technology entrepreneurs, local venture capital expert Vinny Lingham said: “Without a doubt.” It would further assist in securing online payment processing, he said.

    FNB declined to comment, but Fin24.com has learned the project to introduce Paypal is advanced.

    Although sources said the Twitter leaks were part of a calculated public relations exercise, FNB executives are furious news of the project broke.

    Media and technology analyst Saul Kropman said in a Twitter post it would be interesting to see how the costs of using Paypal shaped up largely because only one bank appeared to be rolling out the product.

    FNB has aggressively targeted the small business sector with several technology-driven solutions, including its Instant Accounting offering. Securing PayPal would be another feather in its cap, said Twitter users who added it would provide them access to an invaluable platform for their business.

    Ironically, for a country that doesn’t have PayPal, the technology was developed by South African Elon Musk who matriculated from Pretoria Boys High School in 1988.

    He is now CEO of US technology company (Space Exploration Technologies) SpaceX which develops technology for high-profile clients, including US space agency NASA.

  23. @ ratmo, it seems I owe you an apology, sorry.

    @ Chris M, I receive email updates of the latest posts but when I visit this site those posts aren’t visible.

  24. @Mark – Email updates via Feedburner? Please would you explain a little more so that I can try and resolve it..

  25. Don’t appologise Mark it’s not the end of the world. Im going to be following up with my source and find out if he is in sh1t

  26. @ Chris M – I’m referring to your email update notification informing me as a subscriber that there is a new reply to your post.

    Your notification emails arrive long before the actual reply goes live on your site.

  27. @Mark I have also noticed this, even when I post comments it doesn’t show up immediately. I think Chris moderate the comments of certain posts perhaps.

  28. Oh, the comments might be slow as I use caching technology on my site do it doesn’t fall over..

  29. Oh please say it’s so!

  30. Why would FNB be furious? Leaking the news early and building up sufficient hype is BAD? Here I thought FNB had a grip on social media – along with the inevitable shitstorms?

  31. Ye Wogan, you’re right, you’d imagine they’d have managed it a lot better, weird response!

  32. Also posted to Broadband Lounge: bblounge.co.za/showthread.php?p=7965#post7965

    I would be quite happy to see this materialise here. Would be interesting. One thing I could never understand was why FNB didn’t just “paypal” their e-bucks. They have the infrastructure and I am sure there are some legal loopholes to get around the exchange control issues.

  33. Looks like there are a few alternatives to PayPal – Web Cash looks interesting..

  34. Hi Steve, have you used webcash? Are you involved with webcash?

  35. There are many alternatives yes, I’m using PayFast & Moneybookers. But.. The point here is that WE DONT CARE ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVES. We want PAYPAL! because 99% of online earning potential pays via Paypal only. and 99% of ’spending’ internet users have a paypal account. – We want paypal. WE NEED PAYPAL.

    FNB – Please give us Paypal!!!?!?!?!

  36. Quite right, David Venter. The problem is that everyone uses and trusts PayPal. That it’s technically possible to duplicate its functionality is pretty useless when a buyer goes, “You want me to register an account with who?”

    Here is an article from ITWeb yesterday, to which I contributed. Not much new, I’m afraid. Despite tracking down the origin of the leak, we too found the laager well-circled by Monday morning:

    Tweets trump FNB | ITWeb http://bit.ly/a15VpB

  37. I really doubt it that PayPal would move IN to South Africa, they are even slowly moving OUT of India.

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/05/paypal-halts-india/

    I’m quite sure South African is far from the top PayPal’s expansion list. They don’t have receive service in Qatar, Pakistan and now India. Just a few examples, there are many more.

    South Africa doesn’t even have a local PayPal office, most countries that allow receiving do have.

    And even if PayPal decides to invest in South Africa, maybe open a local office, allow full features, issue ATM cards and all that, I doubt FNB would have anything to do with it.

    Why would PayPal go with FNB if they can choose familiar banks like HSBC, Standard Chartered, Citibank, etc? Who all have branches in South Africa? And they would more than likely use a local bank just for local payments, rather than a partnership. ATM cards would probably be US issued, if they’d even offer them.

    And the South African Rand isn’t even a supported currency on PayPal, nor is the website available in Afrikaans, there’s still a long way to go. Most places where PayPal allows receiving already have these features.

  38. Yay :)

  39. Ye mate, we’ve been waiting long enough, here’s to hoping!

  40. @ Lional : How many websites does have Afrikaans as a feature? And yes the South African Rand is a supported Currency on Paypal. If you pay with Paypal it does convert your Rands into Dollars or Euros, doesn’t it?

    I truly hope that this is true and that it does come as soon as possible. I wonder how many international visitors are coming to South Africa for the World Cup, under the impression that we accept Paypal here? mmmmm

    Anyways, Please FNB and Please Paypal let this be true. Pretty Please.

  41. Not saying I’m against the PayPal/FNB thing, hopefully it would come to life – and be good (not a piece of junk with the PayPal name on it, hopefully PayPal wouldn’t allow that).

    @Valdene – About 8 million I believe, if Google is anything to go by, and that’s just South Africa alone, not to mention http://www.google.co.za (it’s English if your browser’s English, Afrikaans is your browser’s Afrikaans, even Sesotho and Zulu I believe), af.wikipedia.org. Google is localized and I believe PayPal would also be if they move into a new country, I’m basing my opinions on facts, everywhere else PayPal has a full service, it is localized.

    As for saying they support the South African Rand, what your saying is your bank supports the US dollar, nothing to do with PayPal that your bank converts the currency for you (and charges you for).

    Imagine a hypothetical situation of two users in South Africa, let’s say John and Jane for example. John’s in Cape Town, Jane’s in Johannesburg. John wants to buy something from Jane in Johannesburg, Jane accepts PayPal and asks John to pay her. Let’s say the item is R1500, so Jane converts it to $200 (FNB buying rate). John uses his FNB credit card to fund the transaction and pays R1620 to PayPal (FNB selling rate for $200 + 2% “handling fee”). So far, John has lost R120 and Jane has received $196 (after PayPal fees). Jane withdraws the money to her bank account (since it’s more than $150 – PayPal minimum withdrawal in foreign currencies), PayPal deducts their $35 wire fee and sends her $161. FNB receives $161 and gives Jane R1100 (after their currency conversion fees and again difference between buying/selling rates).

    See the point I’m trying to make? These are calculations based on actual fees, rounded off a little bit, but still, we’re dealing with more than 30% lost.

    On the other hand, imagine John was 110 years old, never went to school and can’t read the PayPal site because he doesn’t understand English…

  42. “I wonder how many international visitors are coming to South Africa for the World Cup, under the impression that we accept Paypal here?”

    Not many I think, I’ve never shopped online while on holiday, more likely to use Visa or MasterCard, fortunately that’s taken care of, and thankfully, conversion fees will be charged by their own banks.

    I don’t mean to be pesimistic, please forgive me if I sound so, I would be delighted to see PayPal in South Africa (and the latest news is starting to sound good), it’s just there are a lot of things pointing against it. And fees are my major concern, especially if FNB has anything to do with it, PayPal is expensive as is.

  43. This is surely a hot topic and for an Internet Marketer like myself, the arrival of Paypal in SA will make my life so much easier.

    In my opinion Paypal is like the “Google” of online payment processors and the majority of internet vendors prefer them. Although I currently accept Moneybookers and Alertpay for my online goods and services, I know that my revenues will double if I offer Paypal as well.

    So despite all the doomsayers and negative comments, Paypal is the way to go, and although having no inside info, feel relatively comfortable that it will happen sometime soon.

    Remember 1990 and the release of Madiba? Who would have even thought in 1988 that it was going to happen. The availability of Paypal in South Africa is “commercialy inevitable”, so just watch this space.

    Gerard.

  44. A good point was made in a comment on the itWeb article. Who cares if there are only 5 million internet users in Sa and fewere with credit cards! Man, I want the dollars and the Euros, I can’t get a lot of work fro overseas coz they all want to pay me through PayPal!

    So if this is all true… then Baby! 2010 will be a good year for us poor ol’ freelancers!!

  45. Absolutely Ryan, it’s not about selling items to local users, it’s about being able to sell to International users :)

  46. Does anyone have any solution as to how one can get funds to Alertpay? (besides credit card and bank wire, I’m talking internet transfers here.)

  47. Thanks Chris M for keeping this topic alive. I am one of those saffers in the UK and I’m working on a web based business that I want to bring to SA. I have set it up using Paypal and despite all the local alternatives mentioned in your blogs Paypal is the only service that meets all my requirements so really hope Paypal arrives in SA soon !

  48. @Andrew – Couldn’t agree more, I’m more abroad than in South Africa, partially because I don’t dare to login to PayPal (where most of both my personal and business earnings come from) while there, got my account blocked once for being in South Africa, had to leave the country to get it unblocked, and provide written proof that I did so.

    I actually wonder if there are many other South Africans like me who are forced to live outside their country or lose everything they’ve worked years to accomplish. If I were to permanently move back to South Africa, I’d either have to VPN over to a foreign server and login to PayPal from there (which is cheating, actually), or be flat broke and take our company (UK-based) down with me as I can’t access the company PayPal account from SA.

    I love SA, to be perfectly honest, but not enough to declare bankruptcy unfortunately.

    Given history, I find this news so “too good to be true”, but I sincerely hope it will materialize and I don’t care whether I can only use FNB, if they give me PayPal, I’m a customer for life! Doubt they would restrict it though, maybe to a few major banks like they do abroad, but I doubt FNB alone. Even if it’s just withdraw to FNB and withdraw to US bank (they have that for all countries, for those that don’t know), fine by me.

    @PayPal – Next thing I’d hope for (a dream, I guess) is that PayPal would allow you to choose bank account not based on your country. Like withdraw to UK bank account while in Singapore, would love to be able to withdraw funds directly to my Isle of Man savings account, instead of passing through 3 other banks first. MoneyBookers allows bank accounts in multiple countries, so should PayPal.

    @FNB – Unrelated, but wire transfers on your online banking would also be a cool feature! Banks abroad have had this for ages. And please don’t let us down, secure the deal with PayPal! Best of luck to you, and thank you!

    So, two months left, let’s start praying and begging, praying that it’s true, and begging FNB not to back down!

  49. Hi there!

    I just came across this blog today while searching for an alternative payment option to Paypal!! A really interesting discussion Chris M, I also read your previous blog entry about Paypal. Up until now I thought I was the ONLY person in SA who needed Paypal. LOL I’m an ex-schoolteacher who gave up my “safe”, pension-guaranteed Government teaching post nearly 4 years ago to start my own small business making porcelain figures. Most of my customers are in the USA and UK and up until now they have all paid me using Paypal!! Right now anyone really wanting Paypal in SA, will probably be screeching, “How the heck have you managed to get that right?” My brother in Toronto set up a Paypal account in his name and all of my customers have paid into his account for close on 4 years. He would then transfer my cash to my FNB account when I needed him to do so. This arrangement has worked REALLY well up until NOW!!! Unfortunately I’m now making a substanial amount more money that when I started and this has caused red flags to go up for my brother in Canada, as he is afraid of being nailed for tax or on charges of money laundering or similar!! LOL So despite our great sibling love, he has now suggested that I try to find an alternative way of getting my customers to pay me! Any suggestions would be welcomed, I’ve briefly skimmed the PAYFAST site, but I’m skeptical and I’m SOOOO nervous of losing my customers that I’ve built up steadily over the past 4 years, by telling them that they are no longer able to use Paypal into my brother’s account! So I’m in a real CATCH 22 right now and will probably STARVE to death if I don’t come up with a payment option very soon! Has anything else come to light regarding Paypal and FNB in April???? PLEASE help, I’m down to my last tin of baked beans and just enough copper coins to trade in at Ster-Kinekor to go and watch Tim Burton’s “Alice!”

  50. @Debbie – Not quite a solution, but if I were in your situation I’d attempt to negotiate with my brother to either pay the taxes or to come to some sort of (legal) agreement. There isn’t anything available to SA that compares well to PayPal and I know, selling goods to the US ourselves, we have to pay 15% tax to the IRS anyway, even using a foreign PayPal account. Maybe you should talk to an accountant, as your solution with your brother is really the best, unless your brother can somehow help open an account in your name.

  51. That’s wierd. I can’t see @Debbie and @Lionel’s last replies, the last one I see here is @Lionel’s of 20 February.

    I’m having a similar problem on my WordPress blog, sorry to hijack this thread :)

  52. @Haroun – Nothing’s wrong, it’s caching, server-side. Those posts (as well as this one) should show up shortly. I think your WordPress might be configured the same, or it’s your browser’s cache (try Cmd-F5).

  53. Thanks for the suggestion, Lionel! I spent ages yesterday browsing and searching through all the websites that might offer a money transfer/payment service to South Africans – something remotely similar to Paypal. I was quite impressed with 2Checkout and was ready to sign up and pay the $49 joining fee, but then I noticed that they would only make a payment to me once my customer receives the goods which they have purchased from me and it has been verified that they are happy with whatever they bought!! Unfortunately that won’t work for me, I don’t ship until I’ve received payment!

    Ready to tear my hair out with FRUSTRATION about not being allowed PAYPAL in SA!!!!! GRRRRRR!!!!

  54. I’m amazed that we haven’t heard any more news on PayPal and FNB, I would have imagined that we’d receive something just to keep us all on the hook..

  55. @Debbie,

    I think you are missing the boat by a mile. You will have the money in your 2checkout account, not in your bank account.

    2Checkout is protecting them and the customer, so that you do not run off with their money. Your customer cannot get their money back unless they declare a dispute. And yes 2checkout do check up and sometimes call the customers.

    By you getting the money first before shipping, what recourse does your customer has, and why should they trust you?

    You see, 2checkout tries to overcome this trust issue by having a trust system. I am sure that PayPal also does this.

    I have been selling and shipping stuff to customers using 2checkout, and I always got my money back. I have many transactions and we sold several physical products. Quite frankly we have never received any request to refund a customer his money.

    So there is nothing wrong with the way 2checkout works. It is the best way and the most ethical to protect you and the customer as well as for them to keep their reputation, which helps you to sell your products.

  56. @Leon – Not everyone is comfortable with an escrow system like that, with PayPal sellers receive payment immediately, into their PayPal account, but they can request a withdrawal a minute later if they wish. I have been using PayPal/eBay for years and never had a trust issue with either. PayPal and eBay both offer a Buyer Protection feature, so if the seller runs away (I’ve never seen this happen), buyer can file a claim with PayPal, for physical goods sellers can enter tracking numbers to protect themselves in the case of a dispute. Many people don’t want to wait for their money (I am one of them).

  57. @Lionel, Neither are everyone fortunate enough to have access to Paypal’s full features. Rather than waiting for Paypal to come, I’d use 2Checkout instead. You are amongst the few who are able to use Paypal. Why don’t you then help us with a solution then so that we also can use Paypal and get paid immediately.

    Too often I see people come up with lame excuses not to make money, than just doing it. If 2Checkout is your only option with a few drawbacks, then get over it and use it. Or give me a solution and then I will implement it and use that.

    Don’t stand in your own way of success!

    It is weird. Some people say, trust me, but I do not trust you. How does that work?

    @Lionel, please share with us the process you have followed to get a Paypal account where you can make withdrawals. Of course I hope that this is legal and that you are a South African, and you do comply with Paypal’s TOC, as they can also shut down your account and you loose all your credit in that account.

  58. @Leon – By all means, I agree with that, if I couldn’t use PayPal then I would use something else, I just don’t like the idea of the long wait.

    My solution, totally in compliance with PayPal TOS. Foreign bank account, foreign credit card, foreign phone number and foreign address – all valid. Not so easy to get unfortunately, but I have all of those. The address needs to be valid and match the bank account and credit card – it does. The phone number needs to be valid as well.

    I have had all these verified by PayPal and they are well aware that I am South African and have even asked for a copy of my passport, bank statement, proof of address, etc.

    Using a PayPal account in South Africa is fine, being an SA citizen is fine. What bothers PayPal is the billing address. I even have two SA credit cards linked to my PayPal account as well, though not primary. They don’t have a rule like iTunes where you’re not allowed to use the account abroad.

    The key for me is having a valid foreign address and phone number, which I realize isn’t easy for everyone.

  59. Leon, you are just what I needed today to push me out of my comfort zone, THANK YOU!!! For the past 4 years having my brother in Toronto handle all of my Paypal transactions from his Paypal account has been so darn COVENIENT! Your info about 2Checkout has got me feeling less frustrated and motivated to look at their site again as a possible option. Thank you for the pep talk and little rant about not standing in your own way of success! It’s just what I needed!! (GRIN!)

    Lionel I am envious of your full access to Paypal and I guess I share the same impatience at wanting to see my money straight away! But as Leon has said, “If 2Checkout is your only option with a few drawbacks, then get over it and use it.” I now hope to do this!

    Secretly I’m still holding my breath on the chance that PAYPAL might be available to receive funds from April. I actually phoned one of the FNB managers in my home town, Port Elizabeth, today, to ask if there is any more to this “rumour” about Paypal that he might have to share! His response: “Paypal, what’s that? I’ve never heard of them!” But he was nice enough to actually go and Google what Paypal actually is and also follow up with his head office in JHB about this issue. He got back to me a couple of hours later to say that it appears that FNB is still busy negotiating/chatting with Paypal, it’s under wraps and a statement could be forthcoming!” I guess we’ll all just have to wait and see!!!

  60. @Debbie, Thanks for the kind words. I was wondering how you will perceive my comment.

    @Lionel, Don’t they also check from which IP address you are accessing them, to match your physical address?

  61. I will be doing another blog post this evening about FNB and PayPal as I have some more information :)

  62. First National Bank has finally confirmed what SA Internet users have long suspected. The banking group is partnering with online payments specialist PayPal, a subsidiary of online auctions giant eBay, to allow South Africans to use the US company’s full suite of products for the first time.

    FNB on Wednesday invited journalists to a press briefing on 25 March, to be addressed by bank CEO Michael Jordaan and senior executives from PayPal. They plan to discuss how they’ll work together to “make global e-commerce faster and easier for the SA market”, according to the invitation.

    News of the bank’s discussions were first leaked on group messaging service Twitter, apparently by one of FNB’s suppliers.

    Though South Africans have been able to apply for PayPal accounts, they have not been able to receive money from people internationally using the service because of SA Reserve Bank regulations. It’s understood that FNB has held discussions with the Reserve Bank about launching PayPal’s full suite of services in SA.

    The fact that FNB and PayPal have called a press conference suggests they have received Reserve Bank approval to launch the US e-commerce company’s products locally.

    — Staff reporter, TechCentral.co.za

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