I called PayPal.com today from South Africa and asked wasssup?!
I can smell the smoke coming out my ears! I like to deal with people from overseas when it comes to business, not only is it interesting to see how other people work and think, currency wise, receiving money is fantastic, considering the favouring exchange rates.
Let’s paint a quick picture: Jonny lands a contract with Sarah. Sarah is based overseas in the United States and Jonny is based in South Africa. All things go to plan and Jonny is ready to receive payment from Sarah. Sarah naturally asks Jonny for his PayPal account to which Jonny mumbles something about not being allowed one, Sarah is amazed. After hours of running around researching, they realise the only real option is a wire transfer. Jonny submits his banking details to Sarah and she prepares to wire the money across only to have hassles about a SWIFT and Clearance code?! Jonny calls up his local bank and requests these details. Each branch has a specific swift code, which can often be found online, and the clearance code is the same as your branch number. Jonny sends off the new banking details to Sarah, who can now wire the money across after paying a substantial bank charge. After several days, the money arrives in Jonnys account and before he can do anything with it, he needs to go to the bank and sign a clearance form!NIGHTMARE!
So today I jumped onto the phone and gave PayPal a call as I wanted to get to the bottom of this whole issue! I made a list of things, which I have outlined in point form below. These are comments directly from PayPal:
What are South African citizens permitted to do?
- South African citizens may open up a PayPal account
- South African citizens may receive money
- South African citizens may spend money in their PayPal account on stores such as Amazon.com, etc.
What are South African citizens not permitted to do?
- South African citizens may not receive money from their PayPal account into a local account
Why?
The SA Reserve Bank is blocking its citizens from receiving money via PayPal as it then cannot control the account users.
Below is an image reflecting the possibilities of available to South Africans. The green represents feasible actions, the red represents non feasible actions and the blue represents a straight wire transfer.
It’s clear that doing business with foreigners can be possible, but when it comes to collecting the money at the end of the day, it’s a complete nightmare. I must just point out that it’s NOT PayPal’s fault that you cannot use their service correctly, but actually SARS that requires complete and utter control over all money flow – why does this not surprise me?
After chatting with a highly qualified and successful MBA business owner this afternoon, I started to think about this dilema a little more. She raised some interesting points, which were along the fact that the minute a foreigner hears that PayPal is a problem and does some research, it really does paint an awful picture for South African businesses. She says that it instills a lack of trust immediately in her. For South African companies interested in attracting foreign investment, it’s getting harder and harder. This is really disappointing to realise, as I feel that South African has so much to give and is doing its best to level up against the rest of the world in terms of economy.
Ok, well there’s my rant for the day, if you’ve finally learnt how PayPal and South Africans can work, please share this post with your friends and family. Let’s finally close this taboo with understanding!
South Africans are allowed to sign up for PayPay! Click here to sign up!
FORUMS:
- What are your thoughts on PayPal for South Africa
- What do you think of PayFast?
UPDATE:
2CheckOut have come to the party and are now offering a service for South Africans to receive money – If you’re interested in reading more about this great alternative, take a look at 2CheckOut South Africa.
See you soon.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
It’s crazy how we are so far behind when it comes to simple things like this. We need to write to Trevor Manual and let him know he is just being plain doff :) :)
Feb 13th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Hehe, I just got so sick and tired of the million and one different versions there are on this! I was really happy to get down to the bottom of this and finally have an understanding.
It annoys the hell out of me that SARS have to have complete control of all the money moving inwards – if all the other countries are doing it, then why not us!
I feel that we need to younger generation to start moving their way up now, into companies like SARS and start influencing the older generation – I think that could serve good purpose!
Muti up the post mate! :)
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Sign up for a http://www.setcom.com account and set up a payment form and you can receive money in USD ZAR and i think GBP if i remember correctly.
They take a small percentage of each transaction but you can withdraw funds into your SA bank account.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Ah, I have heard about Setcom, my question would be.. can a PayPal user then transfer funds into a Setcom account?
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Not sure about paying from paypal into Setcom – Setcom is really just a credit card gateway that doesn’t require a ZA merchant bank account like companies such as VCS do.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Ah, so a foreigner would simply be able to transfer the money into the account.. that’s pretty useful, I’m busy having a read on the setcom site..
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Yeah, I used it when a foreign company purchased some ad space on one of my sites – was only R150 but there was no other way other than a Wire transfer, funds are still sitting in the account hehe.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Ah ok, that’s the thing, I can see the money coming in and then just see a big mission getting from that account into my local bank account. Grief, South Africa ftl some times :/
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Yeah, setcom needs a faxed proof of bank account and then they will transfer it. Didn’t have a fax machine at the time so i just never bothered.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Haha, ya, for 150bux not really worth the mission.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Chris, I don’t believe that South African PayPal account holders can receive funds into their accounts (from other PayPal accounts).
They can only add funds from their own SA bank account.
They can withdraw funds only into a US Bank account.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Mike, I use a fax service if I need to fax physical documents.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Well, I made three calls.
1. PayPal
2. FNB
3. A friend
PayPal reported most of the information in this post, FNB was fairly clueless, but they did manage to help a little and my friend confirmed that he does receive funds and does use them to purchase items online..
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Hi Guys
Write to Trevor Manuel and hopefully he’ll change it in his budget: (tipsfortrevor@treasury.gov.za)
Feb 13th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Sjoe, I hardly see that happening! Would be a nice initiative though :)
Feb 13th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Your friend is not a good source of information – PayPal is the authoritative source.
Your friend most likely does not have an SA PayPal account.
Review this PayPal url:
http://tinyurl.com/35kha4
To get money into PayPal, you can request it, via a Request Money tab. That tab is missing on SA PayPal accounts.
I just logged into my PayPal and I only have a Send Money tab.
Sorry, but the story is not yet resolved.
If The SA Reserve Bank was solely responsible for this, then SA PayPal account holders should still be able to at least receive funds into their accounts – but PayPal blocks that.
I suspect that the SA Reserve Bank is not the main problem. I believe PayPal is the culprit.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I’m well aware of all of this Richard, I did my research. My friend has been doing it for many years now, and he’s a reliable source.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Chris, you’d be surprised. I’ve written to him before and he effected the change I requested in his budget. If enough people kicked up a storm then they would change the rules, as it’s in SA’s benefit to receive funds.
I agree with RC though, that the reserve bank is unlikely to be behind this – more likely a Paypal thing…and to think it was co-founded by a South African.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Chris, you need to confirm that your friend indeed signed up for a South African PayPal account.
I spoke to an SA blogger last year who was able to receive funds, but he had signed up as a UK user.
Nevertheless, he still could not retrieve funds into an SA bank account. He had to divert it into an offshore credit card which he then used to purchase goods in SA.
Drawing funds out of an ATM (or OTC) on a foreign credit card attracts additional bank charges in SA.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
South African – that’s very interesting and very true, the more people who push and show an interests, the more chance we have in having something like this happen!
Richard, I will see what other information I can get from him. I have a british passport and think I need to organise a flight over there to open up an account, I think it would be a great deal easier!
Yes, he cannot receive funds into his SA Bank account, this I know.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
See if SetCom can receive international payments into SA, then it is not the SA Reserve Bank that is the problem.
However, there is something else – foreign payments into this country attract a flat fee of around R100 charged to the SA bank account holder.
I’m not sure how SetCom gets around that charge.
Feb 13th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Richard – You know, I thought of that a couple moments ago too and noticed what you noticed, it’s dead right. Argh, let the saga continue!
Ye, there’s sneaky shit going on left, right and center in this country!
Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Ever tried to buy a non SA point to point flight on BA.com? They don’t allow it and you have to call their call centre and pay over the phone. Why = Reserve Bank! Even Afghanistan is allowed to make payments..
There are a couple ways around the whole thing:
Local payment gateway: Mike, you have a great idea but generally that means the client is paying in Rands (and they may not be happy when they see an unfavourable exchange rate) and one can use MyGate, VCS, NetCash, PayGate and of course Setcomm amongst others.
UK/Off-shore Paypal: Speak to Barclays or any of the off-shore banks about opening an off-shore account. Easier and cheaper than you think! Once you receive the money from PayPal simply pay to your SA account. All via IB :) Benefit from being able to decide when you want to bring the money on-shore :)
Off-shore CC: Lots of places (Canada especially) offer ‘pay as you go’ credit cards. If you know someone and get one simply get paid onto the card and you don’t have to worry about Trevor at all ;)
Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
South Africa is definitely backward if even Afghanistan is allowed processes like this!
Setcom allows for clients to pay in USD or Pounds – which does make it useful. Using the likes of VCS or MyGate, etc. turn into a much bigger process from what I’ve read and worked with before for e-commerce driven websites.
I actually have a long document, which outlines the process of acquiring a foreign postal address allowing South Africans to sign up for a paypal account, and then I guess the offshore account is a wise move – it’s still such a mission, we shouldn’t have to find loop holes and such to receive foreign currency! Argh!
I think it would be nice to bug Trevor though :P
Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:49 am
I write for a Canadian website, Suite 101.com and they make all their payments by Paypal. I have mine paid into a friend’s account in the USA. When I go and visit, I at least have $$ to spend.
I also went crazy investigating ways and means – I do think it is an Reserve Bank restriction, not PayPal
Feb 14th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Thanks for the info Chris. I know I have been on this case for ages now.
Adii did say on twitter that he found a way of receiving money into a SA bank account via Paypal. But didn’t want to reveal it in a public place like twitter. I’ll see if I can find more info from him. ;-)
Feb 14th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Many thanks for this post Chris,
Nice to finally read a definitive account of what the problem is.
As a entrepreneur and student, I enjoy searching for arbitrage opportunities and enjoy selling products. The opportunities existing in moving products between ebay, bid or buy, the South African Market and Europe is monumental.
The lack of paypal, however, means that you might as well kiss this opportunity good bye. I have had terrible experiences trying to receive money into a paypal account (this is just not possible) Obviously, it goes without saying, that withdrawing money is also not possible.
Are any of you dual citizens, who travel a lot? That would sort out your paypal woes…
*sigh*
N1! looks like SMMEs better look elsewhere for opportunities.
Feb 14th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Woops… sorry for the double post…
Just one point.
It wont do any harm emailing Trevor, but it is probably worth mentioning that he actually has nothing to do with the reserve bank.
Don’t forget that Trevor is the Minister of Finance and in charge of the National Treasury. He takes care of fiscal policy (which is public spending by government)
The South African Reserve Bank, on the other hand, is an independent entity and is in charge of monetary policy. The governor of the reserve bank is Tito Mboweni.
Now, if only we could find an email address along the lines of “tipsfortito”…
Feb 14th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Thanks for the info Chris.
This certainly is disconcerting.
My question would then be; to sign up with Setcom or to open an offshore account?
We’re in the process of releasing our debut album for download.
What option would suit me best in dealing with foreign currency transfers to my SA account.
Feb 14th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Charlie, you probably need to do online credit card processing.
PayPal is not going to help you if you need to get funds into South Africa.
setcom.com is probably a better option.
There’s also pricetag.co.za. They have a setup fee though and a flat monthly rate (in addition to taking a commission off each transaction).
Feb 14th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Correction: its SARB not SARS that restricts this. To be even more correct SARB enforces the foreign exhange controls, which it can do effectively by its position in the SA financial market.
However SARB cannot change the exchange control regulations – that’s the job of the DTI and the finance minister (and parliament).
The fact that Paypal doesn’t allow SA residents to transfer funds into their local banks accounts has no impact on investment in SA. We are not a competitive nation for hosting online services, and anything that resembles “investment” or a large payment is going to be done using wire transfer anyway (because of the costs involved using Paypal for large amounts).
In addition the DTI offers incentives for foreign investment, so your money goes further if you do it through recognised channels.
Feb 14th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Wow, this is totally awesome, nothing better than having a great forum for people to discuss a topic, which is really of great concern.
Just by reading over the comments, it makes me worry again, as there is still a great deal of uncertainty =\
I am really busy at work today, but hope to sit down and really take a good read of all these comments, so I can add my 2c worth of information!
Keep the comments rolling!
Feb 14th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I strongly suspect that PayPal does not allow South African PayPal account holders to receive funds because it lumps us in with Nigeria and other African countries which are host to 419 scammers and money launderers.
Getting PayPal to actually admit this, is most likely impossible. They probably feel that if they were to do that, they’d do their brand harm and South Africans would not use their service at all.
In fact, anyone who strongly disagreed with their politics might boycott them.
So, calling them or emailing them is likely to result in being fed bogus information. PayPal knows why they refuse to extend full service to South Africans. Telling us why, would serve only to inflame us and they would lose business.
You won’t find them on record anywhere stating unequivocally why we are denied full service.
Feb 14th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
You make a really good point Richard – I’m going to do some more research this evening and see what else I can come across, because I’d love to get down to the bottom of this whole situation!
I need some PayPal loving!
Feb 14th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Yes, Chris, it’s a useful discussion.
Thanks for hosting it. :)
Feb 14th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Hi Chris
You can also take a look at http://www.2checkout.co.za – it’s not as fancy as paypal.com, but it does allow people with paypal.com to pay directly into your 2checkout.com account, which then does the wire transfer into your SA account.
- Costs: $49 to open the account.
- Free to use, but they take 4.5% of the transaction value.
- $10 for the transfer to the SA Bank Account
- minimum release level of $300
I’ve been using them for years and am mostly happy with their service. Can be a nightmare to set up with them, but once your account is approved (human interaction required from their part) you’re ok.
The guys controlling paypal.com is actually the Reserve Bank and not Trevor. Foreign Exchange Policy is controlled by the reserve bank. The SARB sees a paypal.com account as an illegal overseas account because you can receive money in the account and spend it without ever bringing it back to SA – a violation of the Foreign Exchange Act. Because SA has no jurisdiction over paypal.com accounts they cannot see what’s going on in there.
Apparently SA put a lot of demands on paypal.com regarding paperwork etc, and the guys just got fed up.
The saddest part is that paypal.com was started by an expat South African!
Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
I had a look at 2checkout and they have too many restrictions on what can be sold via them.
For instance, I sell online advertising (banner adverts and notices in my email newsletter). They specifically bar that.
I could sell web hosting, but the majority of my web hosting sales comes from direct interaction with people rather than via my Red Planet hosting site.
So I got no product to sell via them.
I might look at setcom. I’d be keen to go with pricetag except I’m not prepared to pay their R570 setup fee nor am I prepared to pay them a flat rate of R200 per month. I’m only prepared to pay a commission off each transaction.
Feb 15th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Thanks for the useful information Tony, definitely something I must look into! I know I’ve been on the website before to do a quick look, but this time I will take a proper read as it sounds very useful. Not so keen on the release fee, but we got to do what we got to do!
@Richard – ah ok, I would just need the account to receive payments really :)
Feb 15th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I’ve done a couple Worldpay.com installations over the years. Easy and cheap remittance to SA. I had just finished a charity site donation gateway and got an email from them saying they were pulling out of the country.
My suspicion was in line with Richard’s above about banding us with the likes of the 419 scammers, etc.
Anyone have the real story?
Feb 15th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I’ve also looked in to 2checkout, however that $49 setup fee is a stinger. What I plan on doing is asking a relative in the UK to open a bank account. Any money from my paypal account will go to that, and she’ll send it over from that account to mine in SA. I’ll have to simply absorb bank charges and set aside some of the money in case she gets taxed on it, but it’s better than not getting any money at all…
Feb 15th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
But why can you guys receive money into your paypal accounts in the first place?
South African paypal members may only send money. They cannot receive or withdraw money.
Trust me, I know this because I have tried it.
Feb 15th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Brett, some South Africans choose to sign up as UK members. To do that successfully, they’d need a UK bank account, because of the verification step.
Feb 15th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Well this isn’t the only problematic payment solution. Anyone here tried to use WorldPay? Awesome online credit card acceptance client… however they like everyone else have had to remove SA from it’s list of clients.
Lets face it, it would do the economy good to have a lot more people taking in foreign funds. Even if they don’t pay tax, they will have to pay VAT anyhow!
Feb 15th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I have Paypal Account link to Irish Bank Account. My bank recently introduced transfer of money to foreign banks via online banking. I know it is not much help for people in SA. If it is only small amounts you may have a look at Ikobo. After all SA is an effort to business with.
Feb 15th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
@Richard- ahhh… thanks for clearing that up for me. :)
Feb 15th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
@Richard – it there a way to open a British bank account from South Africa? I have a british passport, I just see it being silly to book a return flight over to simple open an account!
Feb 15th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
@Chris: It is also possible to open a swiss bank account. You do not have to be present. Try Credit Suisse or UBS. You only need to maintain aprox 2000 franks in account. Paypal is available in Switzerland. Swis do not ask questions. If you have family in UK you can use their address and open bank account. UK is very strict but it is possible. They will send balance sheet to SA, but not the cards. Risk is to high in SA. I have UK account open many years ago only had letter from FNB to prove that I am “good” customer. I looked at other payment options like moneybookers, but they do not even mention SA. Western Union also do not send money to SA.
Feb 15th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
If you’re going to go ahead and open an offshore bank account why not open one in a tax haven like the Seychelles?
Feb 15th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
If only Hansie Cronje were still alive, he could answer all your foreign bank account questions.
I believe that at the time of his untimely death, investigators were still at work probing over 100 offshore accounts of his, not all of which he had fully disclosed.
Feb 15th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Ok, didn’t read all the comments, so excuse me if I’m off. You say south africans can receive money to their paypal account but can’t withdraw.
According to me we can’t receive money to our paypal account. People tried sending to me and actually got an error “Receiving money is not yet active in South Africa”
So I had to get someone in Canada open an account for me which I now use until one day :)
Feb 16th, 2008 at 12:37 am
Hi
I also now fighting for a long time to receive money from overseas. http://www.alertpay.com/?4q55KVoMwOMxWLPZJ8VQ3A%3d%3d
is only third party payment processor that you can use in RSA. They have a FNB account witch you fund with a ref # they will give you. You can also receive money into your bank acc from March. The nicest thing about them is you register or upgrade to a Personal Pro account then you can generate a buy now button that work just like paypal.
Direct from my members area:
Yes it is true banking for South Africa is now available to use!*
You can finally add money to your AlertPay account and also manage the currency of your country.
*Withdraw to your bank account will be available in middle of March.
You set your acc to ZAR and don’t have to work in $’s.
Fees and use of a Personal Pro acc:
Personal Pro Account
A Personal Pro account gives you access to numerous online selling tools to help you thrive online. If you are an active seller or you an avid online shopper, choose the AlertPay Personal Pro account today!
* Conduct business under your name
* Low receiving fee of 2.5% + $0.25 per transaction
* Accept Credit Card payments
* Website Payments: Buy Now Buttons, Subscriptions and Recurring Payments
* Instant Payment Notification (IPN): Real-time notification to your servers
* Mass Pay: Send out payments to groups of people
What I like most is if you want to sell something on my auction site (http://www.bidabargain.co.za) then you generate your own button for each product, so you can decide if you want to sell national or international.
Hope this help:)
Feb 16th, 2008 at 9:30 am
South African’s cannot receive money via paypal. Not even a refund of a partial amount that you’ve paid like all other payment gateways allow.
Feb 16th, 2008 at 10:23 am
@Rustig – thanks for the information, I will take a look into it – appreciate it!
@Mike – Good point!
@Richard – hahahhaa
@Phil – Lucky :)
@Jacques – Half say you can, half say you cant’ – this is going to continue to be a massive mystery!
Annoying, grrr~!
Feb 16th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Chris,
What most likely happened is that if you signed up to Paypal a few years ago, they did let South Africans receive money. After some time they decided to revoke the right to receive money, but they didn’t remove the privilege from the accounts of people who had signed up prior to the policy change. Any South African opening a Paypal account now cannot receive money into it, or a local account linked to it.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-country-functionality-outside
Feb 16th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Michael, I actually wondered about that as my friend that I talked about initially has had his account for quite a number of years, so you could be spot on mate!
Feb 17th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Wow – quite an active thread this one!
The way I see it, here are three options for South Africans who do not have british passports.
Option 1:
Use http://www.2checkout.co.za for my online transactions without any major hassles. The $49 (about R380) is not a big expense to be honest – cheaper than the other two alternatives – and the guys a 2checkout.com are really helpful. The problem, as Richard points out, is that they have a huge “ban-list” and community websites are excluded (a great money-spinner!)
Option 2:
open up an overseas bank account from SA. It’s quite easy. I’ve made calls to a few of the banks and the most reasonable seems to be LloydsTSB. They have a branch in Claremont and in Johannesburg. It’s £100 to open an account with them. Then just use a friend’s address in the UK as your address when you open a paypal.com account. DO NOT use a .co.za email account – use gmail.com or something or you’re screwed.
The bank sends you a VISA card so you can spend your money here in SA with no problems. Or you can have the money transfered to you SA account, which could be problematic.
Remember to declare your foreigh income to SARS or you could fall foul with your taxes.
Paypal.com is now also introducing a banlist for products or services. Remarkably even hosting companies are on that list. The list is not commonly available – you simply find out that your account has been closed and you’ve lost your bucks (they confiscate it).
Option 3:
Most complicated option, but effectively the best. Open up a Trust in the British Virgin Isles through a company, like Osiris. Then open up a Limited Liability Company in the BVI. Since the BVI remains a British Protectorate it’s considered a British company (but with huge benefits).
You can now trade – and the money is taxed in the BVI and not SA. There is one flaw in this – if more than 80% of management decisions are made in SA then the SA government considers it a South African company and you are taxed as such.
Option 3 is the “most legal” of all the options, but will set you back about £1500 to set up. It has one other major benefit – it allows you to register with WorldPay (which allows you to bill in ZAR so it doesn’t freak out your local clients). The problem is WorldPay’s fees – it’s £700 just to open up an account and then a good few pounds a month to keep it running.
I believe SA and India are the only two world-player countries that still have huge exchange regulations. The reason for SA is sort of obvious … if they dropped the regulations everyone who could would sell everything and leave the country. The huge outflux of foreign exchange could trigger hyper-inflation.
Trevor Manuel has gradually increased our limits over the last few years – and has increased both stability and investor confidence.
My only concern is who will replace him next year when Zuma becomes president. A communist/marxist response would be to tighten foreign control even more.
Now to save up the £1500 :-)
Feb 17th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Hansie, is that you? Is it really you?
Feb 17th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Hi guy’s the easiest is http://www.alertpay.com you can send money and from middle march you can receive money into your South African account. Just a tip no matter what you do SARS will know you spend and receive money over seas.
Feb 17th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Jacques, instead of just pasting the URL here, why don’t you give us a fantastic breakdown like Tony did above?
People are weary when it comes to these things and don’t want to waste time reading and researching.
Give us a nice breakdown mate :)
Tony – that’s awesome, that really does put things in perspective! Thanks a million bud :)
Feb 17th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Ok let my try, first the type of accounts you get:
Personal Account:
This account is i deal if you send and receive money from friends and family or occasionally buy online from merchants. You have full access to all the funding options and ability to withdraw funds. This account has a monthly receiving limit of $400 and a cumulative annual receiving limit of $2000.
Premium Account
A premium account provides you with no monthly or yearly limits receiving limits. This account is recommended for active sellers or if you conduct business online. You will also have access to features like: Mass Pay, Integration tools and website payment methods. Receiving limit for this account is at a competitive rate of 2.5% + $0.25 per transaction.
Secured Account
Secure account gives you access to the same features in a premium account but with added peace of mind. We recommended this type of account for businesses such as multi-level marketing, mature content and other “risky” businesses. Receiving limit for this account is at a competitive rate of 3.9% + $0.59 per transaction.
I use a premium account where I can create sell buttons for my products that I sell online.
In South Africa you can fund your account like any other account, they have a account with FNB and just do a EFT. From the middle of next month (March) you can withdraw money straight to your bank account in South Africa, so their is nou wire transfer cost.
In basic it work just like Paypal, just not all the restrictions. 2Checkout also work nice but the problem is you cant use it if you like sell on auction, you can use it only for one shop.
AlertPay you can create a sales page for every item.
Some general info I read yesterday in “Die Burger, Sake24″ They say with 73% of South African internet users buying online, it is the way to go, I also find with my auction site that more and more international buyers come to buy from us because of the cheap ZAR.
I hope this help, the best is join alertpay it is free, their reply on online help is quick and you can delete your account anytime if you not happy. Good luck and happy selling.
Feb 17th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
AlertPay sounds interesting. I’ve asked them for further info.
When they start offering full service to South Africans, I’ll definitely sign up. Hopefully that will increase my online sales.
Thanks, Jacques, for the info. :)
Feb 17th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Thanks Jacques, what a great breakdown, this topic is getting more and more exciting!
Feb 17th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
There was a link on AlertPay to an article on CNN Money about TrialPay which looks very interesting.
Feb 17th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
So much reading to do this evening to get down to the bottom of all of this! I must admit.. it’ll be rocking when I finally find out which service is useful and which service offers good rates :)
Feb 18th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
pls. i am a nigerian i wish to open paypal and i want you to help me out.
Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Lol!
Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Omotadowa …
Are you for real? Can anyone say Four-One-Nine?
:D
Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
HAHAHAHA
Feb 18th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
omotadowa gbenga: Why no email address? Open one from Nigeria. Do I smell a chancer?
Feb 18th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Yes, this thread has been stolen by the Nigerian! :P~
Feb 21st, 2008 at 1:15 am
After opening fake Paypal accounts based in countries like Norway, I only got it right to verify my account by using a South African credit card, I can now receive money from any Paypal member but now I can’t shop at eBay due to Paypal’s gift addresses which may only be registered under your home country.
There is no solution at the moment for South African Paypal users. All I can suggest is to close your PayPal account as I did and lets all protest silently…
Feb 21st, 2008 at 1:25 am
Well see if you open any financial account with fake info, you are committing fraud, which leaves you open to being prosecuted criminally EVEN IF you never misuse the account.
I’m not prepared to protest against PayPal because I respect their decision to decide who and how they wish to service people.
It’s up to me if I wish to accept their Terms and Conditions or not. I’m happy to use PayPal to pay people on the Internet because it affords me protection, in that I don’t have to disclose my credit card info to the payee.
I’ve used PayPal to buy services from American people and companies.
Feb 21st, 2008 at 2:55 am
I would most certainly not open a fake account myself, I think that’s a really dangerous idea! I can just see them making an example of a South African :/
Hopefully something new will come, we have plenty of skill in South Africa for someone to resolve this issue.
Thanks for popping in peeps!
Feb 21st, 2008 at 4:37 pm
The real impediment to PayPal operating freely in SA is the SA Banking Cartel and its dubiously cozy relationship with the SA Treasury. It is not in the SA Banking Industry’s interest to allow PayPal to operate.
For decades, SA Banks have been earning fat profits from exhorbitant fees and charges, and they’ve built up a costly infrastructure based on these fat margins. PayPal comes along, and poses a serious threat. It’s a lean operator, charges low fees, is extremely easy for people (the public) to use, and it’s attracting an increasing share of the “long tail” of online e-commerce. (Long Tail:- the rapidly-growing number of small online retailers, whose collective commercial value exceeds that of their big and super-big competitors.)
Here in the UK, competition laws and the FSA would come dowm heavily on the banking industry at the slightest sign of collaboration against the PayPals of the modern banking world, but in SA, consumers don’t enjoy such protection.
What the SA banks fear the most is companies in the Fat Body (as opposed to the Long Tail) starting to say… “Hang On… why are we paying ABSA huge fees to handle our online credit card processing? Why not just offer our clients PayPal. With nearly 100 million PayPal consumers in the first-world, it starts to make commercial sense. The last thing a SA bank wants is for Pick n Pay to allow its shoppers to pay by paypal.
Feb 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I like your point of view and argument Schoolboy! You sound nicely informed and well educated!
I really wish South Africa would open its eyes up a little and expand financial resources, it really could do the SA economy well!
Thanks for popping in mate!
Feb 23rd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
@ Twiter
I read an article a few months back in an in-flight magazine by a Forbes journalist who aptly pointed out that the world moves millions of dollars across borders daily at rates of around $200 a time. Some of this is due to the large migrant labour forces, eg Indian Software Engineers in the US or UK, Chinese Business owners sending money home to their families.
I am aware of families that support entire households based on foreign monthly allowances from the family abroad.
This argument of course points to the fact that it would be in ANY countries best interest to facilitate this and also perhaps benefit from it by taxing the system.
However, on the flip-side, two years ago I wanted to start up a Western Union franchise in South Africa and offered to purchase sole rights franchise rights for SA from Western Union to get them to fight for me. This was shot down by three different bodies as mentioned above, SARS, SARB and the Finance Ministry. I have written to the Finance Ministry and received a cute response saying that enabling such services in South Africa in the current state of criminal activity will only facilitate further international laundry practices making specific mention of the current exceedingly high involvement of foreigners in the drug trade in South Africa.
The matter has been tabled before parliament before and especially with 2010 coming up, it is a serious point on the to-do list.
I do see Schoolboys point as well and can endorse the idea that inter-banks do meet often to discuss potential strategies and price fixing of service fees on all levels in the banking industry. This is not hearsay, this is fact!
Feb 23rd, 2008 at 9:47 pm
That’s a good point HoTsTePPa – I remember when I used to work in Camps Bay, some of the local barman used to send most of their salaries home to their families. If they were restricted from doing this, what would their families do? I agree, I think it’s a very valid point!
What a nonsense reply they sent you, oh my word! Drug trade in South Africa, lol, is the drug trade that much more predominant here than anywhere else in the world? I think not!
They really do need to handle this before 2010, as thousands of South Africans are going to want to be able to receive funds from afar. It would benefit our economy immensely in my opinion.
Thanks for popping in with such an informative post!
Feb 24th, 2008 at 2:15 am
I just skimmed over about 20% of the comments (read the rest), and all this really equates to is one more reason in a growing list to leave South Africa.
But then there’s 2010…
You know, I get the general feeling that things will be vastly different around 2011. It might just be worth our while to stick around after all ;)
Personally, I’d love to use AlertPay. An unfortunate reality is that it’s not as widely supported as PayPal. And since I had a terrible run with Paypal, I’m not about to go back.
I wonder what happened to that nigerian … :D
~ Wogan
Feb 24th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Ye, the push for 2010 must also be a realization of expansion in terms of banking and financial related ventures.
I’m not too familiar with Alertpay, will need to brush up on that before I can make any comments.
Nigerian – lol, he must of run! :P
Feb 24th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Yes, the drug trade is booming in South Africa.
I’m pro-legalising currently illegal drugs. I think that is the only way to win the so-called War on Drugs.
The Prohibition has created more problems than it has solved. In fact, I don’t think any problems are solved by them being illegal.
Whether to use drugs or not comes down to an individual choice. I don’t think that them being illegal dissuades many people from using them. People already addicted suffer a strong compulsion to use them which overrides all other considerations. People who are not already addicted will not usually be tempted to use anything stronger than marijuana.
If the drug trade is responsible for these hurdles to the mainstream economies in Africa from transacting international business, then surely that is a clear sign that we are being led down a blind alley by the continued Prohibition on drugs?
Feb 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Good points Richard, I’m not too clued up on this subject. I know that drug trafficing is booming in South Africa, and must admit that if that’s the reason we are being limited with trading with foreign countries, then we are not doing things correctly.
The drug use will not stop whether it’s illegal or not, those parties involved and addicted will continue either way.
I love the way this thread has gone!
Feb 24th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
The whole legalisation of drugs is a whole different kettle of fish.
First off, consider the amount of ppl who DONT do it cos its illegal, laugh all you want, but its a reality, some ppl dont do it cos its illegal.
Next, its a diplomatic nightmare. As it is, we are among the faster growing economies in the world, and if we get this Tri-Nation agreement that we’ve been trying so hard to get between Brazil, India and us, things will DEFINITELY get better here.
BUT, as a result of legal drug trading, we will become the biggest drug hub in the world because of your unique shipping routes, making us an ideal link between South America and the rest of the world.
As it is, we got one more year in the UN security council and we can really use the friends right now. Lets just say that Garlic and Beetroot April Fools joke didnt go down too well everywhere else ;).
Having the high VIOLENT crimes, high AIDS rate, and joke of a government are reasons why foreigners aren’t so keen on us having 2010 in the first place!
Now we go add BIGGER drug problems, as if to think that TUK isnt enough already, as well as unmonitored international cash transactions, and we will start looking Myanmar soon!
We have enough issues in this country as it, and the only reason why we don’t look Zim yet is because everyone is keeping it and waiting for the big “I told you so!” moment.
With that in mind, im running for president next term, i’ll bring back the death sentence, get us electricity and make sure that every school has free internet access and make it so damn cheap for household users, that u’d have to choose between a movie or a months internet access like the bloody yanks are doing right now!
Feb 24th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Richard, bit of a thread hijack, but I’m certainly not for legalising drugs.
Look, we all know smoking and coffee are addictive drugs, but they don’t impede our work (remarkably, anyway). I’d be hesitant to have an operation performed by a surgeon who is high on dagga or tik.
Or do we decide it’s like alcohol – have it after hours but not at work? And how would we control it? The effects are incredibly detrimental to society.
And aren’t we just hurtling down a slippery slope of moral decay (though some would say South Africa has already hit the bottom). Corruption is rife, crime is rife.
Legalising drugs is simply an easy way to make our crime stats look better – make less things illegal.
Just my late night ramblings…
Feb 25th, 2008 at 1:10 am
some ppl dont do it cos its illegal
No, people don’t use drugs because they are convinced that they will have a detrimental effect on their lives, and not for any other reason.
When people decide they want to use drugs, the fact that they’re illegal is not a deterrent at all.
We could adopt The Netherlands model as a start.
Tony, like many people you don’t correctly envisage what the effect of legalisation is.
It’s not advocating the situation you describe. It’s ridiculous to assume that people such as surgeons or teachers would be free to consume cocaine and still retain their jobs.
We don’t control it, we monitor it. People will be free to legally consume whatever they like whenever they like. There’ll just be restrictions on what they are permitted to do whilst under the influence.
South Africa is already a big drug hub.
What you have to realise is that the War on Drugs does not diminish the trade in drugs by a significant amount. For instance, scientists estimate that in Rome, more than 1 kilogram of cocaine is consumed per day in the city. Iow, the war has been lost for a very long time now and it’s about time people acknowledged that it is lost instead of continuing to waste resources on fighting it.
The War on Drugs consumes a significant amount of resources, resources that are better spent on improving our infrastructure, for instance.
I’m not even sure if international money laundering can be associated with PayPal, because laundering money requires cash deposits to be made. PayPal does not accept cash deposits.
I doubt that PayPal could be used for drug related fraud. I would suggest that it is more often associated with 419 scams.
Feb 25th, 2008 at 11:57 am
get a degree and piss off over seas, it’s the best investment you can make in your south african life.
Feb 25th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Perhaps you would elaborate why? I don’t see myself just packing up and leaving over this PayPal dispute..
Feb 26th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
erm… could we all get back on the the subject of getting paypal into SA or at least establishing a suitable alternative?
Ive been using http://www.2Checkout.co.za for about two years now, and while they have an excellent service there are two things that i dont like:
1. Charges are high – $0.45 + 5.5% per transaction + $10 or so withdrawal fees into your bank account.
2. They keep a reserve amount between 5% – 10%. So should you make sales worth $2000 and decide to withdraw $1000 into your SA account, they hold onto 5-10% of the $1000 and release it back into your 2CO account after a couple of months.
I also came across plimus (www.plimus.com) recently, but their fee structure is very similar to 2checkout and isnt worth moving as yet.
Jacques – thanks for pointing out alertpay!!
Feb 26th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Thanks for the cold hard facts mozami, nice to get some numbers and figures onto this thread! I’ve not heard of plimus, I must take a look and see what it’s all about.
Thanks for popping in and sharing your information mozami!
Feb 26th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Welcome Chris. And thank you for hosting this discussion.
Feb 26th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Not a problem, it’s been a great learning experience for everyone from what I can tell :)
Mar 2nd, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Is there anyway to transfer funds from a FNB debit card into a paypal account?
Mar 2nd, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Just a short update, I asked Alertpay again when will they be ready to pay us in our bank accounts in South Africa. They said “vasbyt” one of these days.
This is getting a interrest discussion.
Mar 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Sorry me again, I followed one of your links Chris M, the one to satisfaction, and started a topic there and invite every one here to come and moan with me, maybe PP wake up: http://getsatisfaction.com/agradestores/topics/why_paypal_why link to posting there.
Hope to see every one there.
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 12:45 am
@Willie – unfortunately not :/
Jacques, I’ll head across and have a look, see what we can do :)
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Have a look at this.
http://www.payfast.co.za/
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I shall take a look Rustig :)
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Looks a little too primitive to trust Rustig..
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Agreed, Chris.
They need to download themselves a better looking WordPress theme. Haha.
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Agreed, rofl!
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I signed up with them anyway. I’ll let you know what my experiences are with them.
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Great stuff Rich!
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Look a bit scaly, here is some more info:
0a. lastupdate : 2008-01-26 12:55:46+02
0b. emailsource : info@payfast.co.za
0c. emailposted : Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:53:08 +0200
0d. emailsubject : payfast.co.za – 2008-01-25 – update
0g. historycount : 2
0h. invoiceno : 0
0i. contracttype : NEW
0j. rcsversion : $Revision: 1.181 $ $Date: 2007/09/14 12:58:41 $
1a. domain : payfast.co.za
1b. action : U
2a. registrant : PayFast (Pty) Ltd
2b. registrantpostaladdress: PO Box 36467, Menlo Park, 0102
2c. registrantstreetaddress: PO Box 36467, Menlo Park, 0102
2d. amount : 0.00
2e. paymenttype : I
2f. billingaccount : PayFast (Pty) Ltd
2g. billingemail : info@payfast.co.za
2i. invoiceaddress : PO Box 36467, Menlo Park, 0102
2j. registrantphone : +27 82 435 5082
2k. registrantfax : +27 86 640 8843
2l. registrantemail : info@payfast.co.za
2n. vat : 4520238322
3a. operationaldate : 2008/01/26 12:55:46
http://co.za/cgi-bin/whois.sh?Domain=payfast&Enter=Enter
Jacques
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 9:54 pm
People may said the same about PayPal years ago. Think we should watch and see. Pity they did not register with some financial watch dog or who ever is in charge in SA over these things. The Beta version puts me off. You deal with sensitve info here. No time for beta hiccups?
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Hi Rustig
It is just that I don’t see any ssl sertificate or any thing there, and they also say nothing about overseas payments. Alertpay also came back to me tonight and said the date to receive money in your RSA acount is the 17th of March. AlertPay is also for some years on the net and if you look at the bottom of there page you will see they are verified by Visa, and that is not easy.
So we just hope they keep up with there promises. What I also like is without any programming you can add them to any of your products like paypal’s “pay button” even on your auctions what you can’t do with 2checkout.co.za.
Mar 3rd, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I agree 100% with you. What is what I meant in my comment. I am not into ecommerce, only use Ebay. I think anyone who wants to start a pay portal like Paypal should do their homework very well and get all the security into place. Too many crooks lurking around. I hope it is not another Nigerian scam. MMMMmmm, I will keep an eye on them to see how it developes.
Mar 4th, 2008 at 10:33 am
This topic has gone mental, look how many comments there are!!!
Mar 4th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
It seems as though PayPal is actually going to be something used by South Africans. It was started by the founder of Bid or Buy..
http://imod.co.za/index.php/2008/03/04/is-payfast-the-south-african-alternative-to-paypal/
Mar 4th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Update on Western Union:
I’ve mailed the finance ministry again asking for an update on the decision to allow WU to enter the South African market.
Response is that i will hear from them by mid April with a final decision as it needs to discuss the matter with the relevant stake holders. I will report back with news.
Mar 6th, 2008 at 10:36 am
The paypal issue is a hot topic, I’ll definitly investigate alertpay
Mar 6th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
mid April, lovely delay tactic, but nice work Dee!
Junk.. indeed, this has been proven right here!
Mar 6th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Money Transfers already work into your SA Bank account, using Swift Transfers. I have a cousin in the US who transfered money into my account, and me, with no problem, except one: The bank fees on the SA side. I was billed R180 to receive the money (no minimum) and billed R90 + 2% to send the money (also no minimum) so this solution only really works for high-ticket items.
I use a combinations of facilities each one has a different function. It’s clumsy, but for now it works:
- On my foreign sites I use 2checkout.co.za
- On my local sites I use setcom.co.za (for seminar bookings), netcash.co.za (for debit orders), or vcs.co.za for recurring purchases.
Not one of these systems have all the functions, except perhaps setcom.co.za – but they harass my clients. If the bill is over a certain amount they phone the client and demand a fax of the front and back of the credit card before they release the funds. Clearly a security issue!
I have asked my lawyer to find a way for a South African to legally open a paypal.com account and he came back with the same problem I had: proof of residence.
Mar 7th, 2008 at 9:31 am
I use alertpay ,Much better than pay-pal no fuze or what so ever.
Mar 8th, 2008 at 1:22 am
I think you are dead right, it is not the Reserve bank, after 9/11 , non US residents were not allowed to open bank accounts. Someone at a leading bank said to me , the US don’t want money to get into any country who could be harboring terrorist, syndicates or money launders … with PayPal the transactions can’t be monitored as with bank transfers
Mar 8th, 2008 at 1:57 am
It’s just so darn annoying! I’m still exploring alertpay and the other mentioned companies..
Mar 8th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Why are we always excluded, look at this country’s, I think some of them are big 419’s.
Source: http://www.thepaypalblog.com/weblog/2007/09/paypal-introduc.html
New today, PayPal now offers account balance withdrawals to Visa-branded credit, debit, or prepaid cards in 26 international markets.
This new feature is particularly valuable to PayPal account holders in markets where customers could use PayPal to send money, but had limited ways to receive or withdraw funds. A good example is Brazil. In the past, customers in Brazil could only withdraw funds via a paper check. Now, Brazilian account holders can withdraw money in a secure environment and have their funds available for online and offline purchases using their preferred Visa card.
It is also exciting for our Italian customers where local PostePay cards are widely used. The new withdrawal method gives them the freedom to easily move funds from their PayPal accounts to the payment cards they prefer to use online or offline.
This new functionality is available in: Argentina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, Cyprus, Estonia, Gibraltar, Iceland, Indonesia, India, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Lichtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Philippines, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey, UAE, and Uruguay.
Today’s news offers great opportunities for PayPal to become even more relevant to merchants in many of our international markets. We are constantly evaluating new functionality around the globe, so stay tuned and visit our PayPal Offerings Worldwide page for updates.
Let’s orginize a meeting with Zuma, it sounds he want to listen to us at ground level:)
Mar 8th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Ye Jacques, I really don’t understand myself. There are so many countries which are included which are far less progressive than South Africa – it really doesn’t make sense!
The new feature sound pretty interesting, I must head on over and have a good read about it – thanks for the heads up!
Meeting with Zuma – hahahaha, you think he’d understand? ;)
Mar 9th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Look like Paypal is up to more s……..
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/08/smbusiness/paypal_funds_freeze.fsb/index.htm
About Zuma offer him a 0.1% commision on each deal and he won’t have any problems.
Mar 9th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Interesting article Jacques, it’s a pity PayPal would not comment on it!
0.1%, bugger that, 0.01% would generate a massive income alone!
Mar 13th, 2008 at 7:18 am
This is how it is when a country is being controlled by communists!
Mar 13th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Jason.. absolutely! How are you doing bud? Long time no chat..
Mar 13th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Good, good! Btw, to receive Paypal payments, I use these dudes, it enables buyers to buy from you with their Paypal account and you receive the cold hard cash. This is our only solution ATM.
http://www.2checkout.co.za/
Mar 13th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Ah, thanks Jason, nice to hear that 2checkout does in fact work correctly – I shall sign up effective immediately. Great to hear that you are well, all the best bud!
Mar 13th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Hey
I’m trying to get my debit card onto paypal just so that i can buy things but that doesn’t seem to work either for me
Help would be appreciated
Mar 13th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
A debit card will not work, a credit card is the deal with PayPal..
Mar 13th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
but it says that a debit card with visa works.
I have that so then their info is messed up thanks
Mar 13th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Ah ok, that’s strange, I would recommend emailing PayPal or even calling them and getting to the bottom of it..
Mar 16th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I think paypal only accept debit cards from the US and UK.
I started a blog, a little “dof” with this techie stuff bud anyway here it is http://www.makemeaoffer.iblog.co.za. “Make me a offer”, (Chris hope you don’t see this as a marketing trick but more as HELP, if it offend you delete please.) My aim with it is to help people get their products or services out on the net, we all know more people read blogs than sites. The community thing. It work like this you post a offer of your product or service and then the community can make you a offer for it and you decide who’s offer you want to take, and hopefully from next week we can make use of Alertpay for international offers.
In your posting you can explain about your product, put up a link to your shop or site and also tell a bit more about your shop and stuff.
If any one want to comment you are welcome, always open for improvement, or post a offer, speak to me. Or as Chris say. Say something, I dare you.
Mar 16th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Looks like an interesting concept, will most definitely keep track of it for a while and see how people take to it.
Very similar to Bid or Buy basically from what I can tell, or even E-Bay.
No problem about posting the link here, it’s all about sharing and caring :)
Mar 16th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Thanks Chris. Yes, you right with the concept (bid or buy, ebay)but they have so many rules and regulations about outbound links, so I thought let me start this, then the people can have more exposure to there products, no limit on what you want to advertise but it must go with a offer, and must be legal. Lets hope there is a good response one of these days, and the guys get exposure. Obvious there will be bargains.
Mar 16th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Ye Jacques, there are many of these platforms around, but what makes one stand out is the simple differences with regards to ease of use and extra features, as well as reducing limitations.
PHP Pro Bid is some lovely PHP software which allows you to setup a bidding system. I’ve had a bit of exposure to it and it’s not complicated and fairly easy to modify. They also offer a splicing service, so if you design a look, they’ll adapt it. Price wise, it’s not overly expensive either.
Definitely worth a look in my opinion!
Mar 16th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I’m using PHP Pro Bid here http://www.bidabargain.com we are 2 partners there. Use to be .co.za but rest of the world don’t like .co.za, so we move over to a dedicated server and to .com. Like you say it’s easy to work with in backoffice and admin area. I’m looking for a PHP programmer to change some stuff on the listing page, know about anyone good, send him to me please. I’m also thinking of running a simple more automated system for “make me a offer”, so maybe he can help there aswell.
Mar 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
The site is looking good, I like. Nice number of registered users as well, well done!
PHP coder.. lol, if I knew one, it would be like finding a diamond, I’d hold onto it damn safely ;)
Mar 19th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Wow, what an interesting topic about Paypal.
I have had an account with both Paypal and Alertpay since Jan this year but so far have only used Paypal.
I have it linked with my credit card and have made a few payments for US products and I have also requested a refund for one of them, which was paid back to my credit card with no problems.
Just by chance I heard that you cannot receive money into your Paypal account, but as I did get the refund back okay I didn’t consider receiving any other payments might be a problem.
I have just signed up with various US companies as an affiliate and most of them pay commissions through Paypal. Are you saying that even with my credit card linked to my Paypal account I will not get my money?
Sorry if this question has already been answered but could anyone please inform me?
In the meantime I will contact both Paypal and Alertpay and see what their responses are.
Thanks.
Mar 19th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Marilyn, are you from South Africa?
Mar 19th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Hi Chris,
Yes, I am from SA.
Mar 19th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
I think it’s best that you read through the comments in the beginning as most of these questions have been answered and I really don’t want to restart the whole discussion, but basically, as a South African, you cannot receive funds from your PayPal account into your local bank account..
Mar 19th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Ive also received refunds to my credit card through paypal for items / services that I paid for using my card – but that still does not mean we can receive funds (and i dont mean refunds) into our accounts.
Mar 19th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Ye, I just keep hearing different stories these days, argh!
Mar 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Hi Christopher
Please add a e-mail button to your blog posts to enable readers to forward the content to other interested parties whenever the occasion arises.
Cheers.
Mar 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pm
If Paypal would just work in south africa, I am sure we would se a flood of new interesting websites being developed for South Africans
Mar 21st, 2008 at 4:05 pm
@DareDevil – I will add shortly mate.
@Yebo – Absolutely, the opportunities would opens second to nothing!
Mar 21st, 2008 at 8:10 pm
I see on the bid or buy forum that payfast is Andy’s creation, there is also a site http://www.higgins.co.za or something like that where he is testing the system, you can buy cheap ebooks there.
I can’t understand why paypal don’t want to have a system like egold or LGE(London Gold Exchange) where some one pay me then the money stay there till I want to draw it with a debit card or I request a transfer to my account. 2Checkout also use the system.
In the meantime I use this http://justbargains.co.za/archives/4 click the alertpay button, don’t worry you don’t have to pay, (you can if you want to) for me this is a safer system than a bank transfer, don’t like to give out my bank details, to many nigerians here.:)
Mar 21st, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Ye, Andy is definitely working on something new for South Africans, it’s good news!
Ye, I duno man, it’s a nightmare to get down to the bottom of all of this!
Lol, don’t come here and ask for donations lol ;)
Mar 24th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Hi Guys and Dolls
Just confirm, f%^&k paypal you can now withdraw funds with AlertPay straight to your bank account here in the good(some times) recondition (read old) South Africa. Just hit my name and it will take you straight there. If you go back in the postings you will see where I explain more about alertpay, bussiness account and how you can create “Buy now” buttons or email a link to your client to pay, similar like paypal. If you strugle on bob to sell you stuff go to ioffer.com and sell now international with alertpay. All ebay sellers sell there now because of ebays new fees. Ebay’s new name “feebay”. Chris thanks for starting this topic, I see your blog ratings is doing well, more topics like this and you will be #1:)
Mar 25th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Sure thing bud, just watch the links and affiliate links please :)
Mar 25th, 2008 at 4:06 am
Sure Chris, sorry, was just on a high about the little bit of freedom after try everything for more than 3 years to trade free in the international market.
Suggestion, why don’t you phone them (Alertpay) and have a interview why they can do it and Paypal can’t, and then ask paypal wussup. Second thoughts let sleeping dogs sleep.
Jacques
Mar 25th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Hehe, sure thing mate :)
Ye, I could call them and do an interview, but at this point I need to prioritize some more important things, but it’s a really good idea!
Mar 26th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I finally figured it out!
Here is what I am doing:
A friend of mine from Australia came to visit this week. He is going to open a bank account in his name as well as a paypal account in his name for me there. I then use the paypal account and I also have access to the bank account via internet banking.
My paypal funds can then be withdrawn to that bank account and in the internet banking there is an option for overseas transfer which I will then use to transfer the money here to my account.
Solved! He reckons he transfered R18 000 and it cost him R200 for the transfer. Not too bad I think. Jipee!
Mar 27th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Phil, you’ve got it down mate, that’s definitely the way to do things! Sharing accounts with someone you trust is the best solution – I have a couple friends doing this and it’s the only way to do things properly.
R18000 with a R200 transfer is darn good!
Mar 27th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Some nice stuff to read about paypal, maybe we must be glad we can’t use it here: http://www.paypalsucks.com/ Another site I’m checking out and think I’m going to use them is ccnow.com (Dont worry Chris not a affiliate link) They are bloody miles cheaper than anny SA CC service and then you can receive PP payments and CC.
Mar 27th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Lol, classic website! ccnow.com – Ah yes, that rings a bell, I must take another look into them too. Lol @ no affiliate link – good! :P
Apr 2nd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Great thread, found it via google
I currently use vcs virtual merchant, which has 2 irritants , the 15 day waiting period, and zar only no $.
We currently do not do enough volume for a full merchant acc (spk to bnk)
The various options discussed here look great, trying alertpay at the moment, just making sure clients do not have a lenthy sign up process like moneybookers and setcom :)
Great to see south africans doing what we do best – innovate around problems :)
Apr 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Currently with vcs as a virtual merchant, changing one of my websites over tomorrow to alertpay to see how it goes. Will be awesome to save the monthly fee that vcs charges, guess its time to check my contract with them to see if there is a notice period :P
Apr 3rd, 2008 at 7:25 am
Hi Guys
I will say and I did sign up with them is ccnow.com from South Africa. If you sell less the $100 a month they charge you $10 if more no monthly fee only $0.50 and 4.99% of the transaction, and the big bonus is you can also accept Paypal. They are cheaper than any CC sevice I could find here in SA and they accept many more cards than here.
The setup is very easy, you just upload your products there and set your delivery and then, get html to add to your site and there you go. If you sell on auctions, after the bod you just generate a invoice (same as in paypal) and email it to the customer. Only thing is it must be a product you sell, no services, but there is ways to get around that one, offer something smaal they get when signup with you. Checkout above.
Apr 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 am
Does ccnow have a local bank account to pay out with?
Can you also customize your buy now button on the fly or must you create one for every single product?
I cant believe the timing of finding this page (thx chris :) ) as i was just about to start programming a module/plugin for a new shopping cart so that i could use vcs, but now thats on hold to see who comes out tops on this user review
Sorry about the double post above, my browser didnt show the first post till the next day (probably cached or something)
Apr 3rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Is it completely illegal to receive income in a foreign bank account if you’re South African? I’m advising clients to get PayPal accounts if they have US/UK passports, or friendly relatives, but perhaps I should have checked the legality first? I would assume that if you declare the income, then it is ok?
Apr 3rd, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Jared yes you have to make a button for every product, but you can upload a bulk csv file, ccnow is your retailer(shopping cart). You can withdraw your money, two ways, by them posting you a cheque of bank transfer, on the 1st or 16th of the month or both.
Richard it is highly illegal to receive money in any country if you don’t declare it to there SARS. You don’t have a bank account with ccnow, they send you your money and you have to declare it here (RSA).
Even with this minor problems atop I still think there is no easier way out, because you can accept Paypal, and with paypal you can sell just about anywhere in the world and people will pay you. CCNOW are more than 50% cheaper than any merchant account in RSA even with a bank transfer. Just my 2 cents.
Apr 5th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Hi Guys,
I was on here earlier (March 19th) when I first discovered just from reading on here that you can’t receive money into your Paypal account. So I signed up with Alertpay and have heard from another South African that it works well. Haven’t had chance myself yet to use it,
But now I have come across something else which some of you may or may not be familiar with.
Anyone from ANY country can LEGALLY open a US bank account, have a linked Visa card and withdraw funds from any ATM in the world displaying the Visa sign. Which means you can link your Paypal account to this US account, transfer money to it and withdraw all your money via your local ATM.
Sounds too good to be true?? Then take a look at http://www.dollarat.com and then have a look yourelf at the Etrade website.
If any of you are willing to be our guinea pig and try it out and give us feed back, then please do it.
The only thing stopping me now is the fact that we have temporarily moved into our daughter’s home while waiting to buy our new home, and so don’t have any accounts in my name coming to the address. These you need as proof of your residential address.
But once we move into our own place I will be sending in my application.
BTW This info I have given you is being sold on numerous sites for anything up to R400. So consider this a gift from me to you.
So, who will be the first to test the waters?
Apr 5th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Mmmmm. Sorry but I would realy be very careful. As far as I know it is not possible. I know you can open accounts in Switzerland without being even there, but USA. Nope.
Apr 5th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
There are several resources on the Internet which explain how a person would go about getting an address overseas in terms of just a P.O. Box or what ever, but at the end of the day, we’re dealing with finance here and if you are caught, there will be consequences..
Apr 5th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
When it comes to international fraud, the world can be a small place. There are many legal ways to open a bank account. It does not have to be the US. Paypal pays out in many countries.
Apr 5th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
It should work, I stashed all my cash in SA and withdrew monthly while studying in India. Charges were high, but it worked! Used the system successfully for 4 and half years!
Wonder why uncle Trev hasnt figured it out yet and plugged it?
Apr 6th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Rustig.. very true, I’m just a bit upset that I need to travel to the UK to open an account, even though I have a valid British passport – just seems rather silly, however, I can see the reasons for it though.
HoTsTePPa – Interesting indeed, I don’t think Mr Manual is going to catch on at any point in the near future ;)
Apr 6th, 2008 at 11:33 am
UK not easy to open account. Even with UK passport. Need address etc. I managed to open mine in 1996. Had letter from UK company although I gave up my SA address. They accepted that. Only changed address recently to Ireland. I have SA Passport. Switzerland you do not have to be there physical. Credit Suisse is one. Only need min balance. I still think depends on what you want to do and what you sell. Will avoid any fraud idea. Not worth the result.
Apr 6th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Ye, seems like I’m going to have to fly over for a couple months in order to open an account – Bit of a mission, but I can understand why they require this though.
I think it’s definitely something I need to look at doing though.
You’re lucky bud, well done on sorting it out!
Apr 6th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Hi there
I opened my UK account from South Africa, without ever leaving the country, with my:
1) South African Passport
2) South African Proof of Residence
Try Lloyds TSB – they have an expat savings account on the Isle of Man. Perfectly legal for a South African to use, as long as you declare your foreign income to SARS – http://www.lloydstsb-offshore.com – I only needed £100 opening balance. Monthly cost is £7.50 per month.
They send you a VISA Card linked to your account, so you can draw the cash, or swipe at a shop when needed.
Once that was sorted I registered and verified a paypal.com account – with no hassles (although I used a mate’s address in London on the application).
So yeah, it’s quite possible.
CR
Apr 9th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
The monthly expenses on that account from Lloyds TSB seems expensive. However it is a possibility, that I will look into. Thanks for that.
Apr 16th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Hi Guys,
Just thought you all may be interested that http://www.moneybookers.com has South Africa listed to send and receive funds. Looks like the fees are reasonable too. Apparently when you sign up with them, in order to verify your residential address they post a verification code to your home and when you receive it you enter that number on your account page, then you are ready to go. It’s a British owned site too and very easy to navigate. Has anyone tried it?
Apr 16th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
That’s a nice heads up Marilyn, I think I’ve heard of the site before, but I’m half asleep at the moment and will need to review it tomorrow.
Sounds like a secure system and definitely worth looking into!
Apr 16th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Hi Marilyn,
Moneybookers have an excellent track record. I signed up with them about 2 or 3 years ago but have mostly used it only for buying online back when i couldn’t use paypal. I only received money via moneybookers once – its not widely used because both the sender and the recipient have to have a verified moneybookers account.
I have a friend who is studying here and receives money from his folks overseas via moneybookers every month and he has had no hassles. Last time i checked a direct deposit into your local bank a/c costs under R20!
Apr 17th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Hi Everbody
Aslo been disipointed by paypal.Account has been blocked.Don`t know why.But I`ve found a new payment processor.AlertPay
http://thinkmoney-lancer.blogspot.com/
Apr 17th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
LOL, talk about spamming with affiliate links. Jacobus gives a link to his 1 post blog with nothing more than affiliate links.
Some people really get me!
Apr 18th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Hi again,
I’ve just received my verification letter in the post from Moneybookers which i mentioned earlier( 16th April). This is so easy and straight forward you can tell it’s from the UK (I’m biased I know) All I had to do was go back into my account with MB which i had created and click on verify address, enter the validation number which was in this letter and voila, my account is now verified and active. I do actually think it is easier than AlertPay, but sadly not many people have MB on their websites.
Perhaps we should promote it more. I hear that the promotion payout is quite high if anyone signs up under you.
But (unlike SOME people on here) I will not promote my link on Chris’s blog because there are lots of other places one can post their links on.
Anyway it’s Thumbs Up for MoneyBookers from me (so far anyway, will tell you when i’ve had my first payment)
Apr 19th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
although i didnt read all tue comments i find the little info usefull. i only got this question. how can i as a south african buy items (priced in dollars or pounds) on the net if i don’t have a credit card? can anybody help me? if we could only have prepaid credit cards in south africa.
Apr 19th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
That’s going to be really difficult Chris, it depends mostly on whether the company you would like to purchase from allows you to do an EFT. If they do, they will invoice you and you’ll have to convert currency using an up to date service or email them asking if you may pay in your local currency..
Apr 20th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Hi guys and gals – just wanted to share my 2 and a half cents here concerning payk@k.
Lets face it, the ONLY good reason why one opens a paycrap account is to be able to sell on Ebay .. and what do you know – both of the companies are owned by the same vultures.
Ebay offers a HUGE base of sellers and buyers, but keeps an iron grip. If you register as a South African, you NEED a paypal account, so you go through all the pain to open one up, pay everything there is to pay … and you’re off … or so you think.
We went through the complete procedure and once our Ebay account was up and running with near 500 auctions, they closed our account down. Reason : we were using a non-authorized payment processor (pretty much anything except for paypal). Result : Ebay account closed, creditcard creditted for the 500 auctions (placing fees) and kiss your money goodbye.
Anyway – so far my frustration.
We have been working with Epassporte for some time now (www.epassporte.com) .. works like a charm for CC processing, works like a charm for P2P payments (in the likes of Paypal) and as far as i know, its the ONLY one that offers an actual VISA card. Applied for one, credited our account with $35 and 1 week later our nice new VISA card got delivered. Haven’t had ANY form of issues with it as yet and we go to the ATM on daily bases to get some money. We pay for everything using that card … pretty much the service we needed.
Obviously, you cannot use Epassporte on Ebay since this is one of the “unacceptable” payment processors AND many people still dont know/trust Epassporte as yet.
Thanks for listening, peace out !
Apr 20th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Maxx, thanks for the heads up on Epassporte, I’m really enjoying the whole discussion on this thread, it’s providing us all with so many options to explore as South Africans who want to trade online!
Stick around, it would be nice to hear more from you!
Apr 21st, 2008 at 9:15 am
And a very good monday morning to each and every one of you all – for as far a monday morning can be good obviously .. imo, waking up on a monday morning feels very similar to having your front teeth removed, without anesthesia, by a dentist who just came out of a 4-day drink-party.
But lets get back to the subject, shall we.
Paycrap really pushed my buttons by their whole “we don’t like South African’s” attitude .. and please, don’t give me that “yes, but its the fault of SARS and this and that and there and not Paypal” . If that retarded company would be SO liberated and open minded towards our country – they would allow SA consumers to register offshore accounts. But no, if you login one to many times from SA onto an offshore paypal account .. your are banned and the funds are gone. This is a decision that Paypal and paypal only made. Just like any other average American Joe, they are having a hard time finding the difference between South Africa and Nigeria so they prefer to put them all in the category “Africa”.
By the way – a little off topic point to make here : i really do feel sorry for that one honest Nigerian tradesman that would like to make an honest career in internet trading … is that man going to have a hard time or what !
Anyway – back to the point with the payment and credit card processor thing.
I have spend numerous hours/days/rands trying plenty of them .. seeing how far we, as South Africans, can use the complete service package.
And i would like to share my experience thus far .
1) Paypal : can we say “organized crime” ?
2) Moneybookers : indeed, you can get hooked up as a South African, South African bank support (they seem to have a Standard Bank or FNB account where you can wire funds to in order to juice up your account). However, it does come with several points to consider. First of all, why is it that they have an SA bank account, yet when you want to get the money from your moneybookers onto your bank account, they have to wire it over from the UK, with all costs that come along. Last time we’ve tried, nearly R3000 just “disappeared” in that wonderful maze called administration. And their customer support is to, and i’m staying polite here, “bizarre” .. (if you are lucky enough to get somebody on the phone that is). The CC processing system seems to be something rather complex and for programmers only (i’m a complete novice in web design etc) and seems to be working ONLY for own run e-commerces. PLUS, people will be asked to sign up with Moneybookers before they can make an actual credit card payment onto your account. So it ain’t all that great after all.
3)Alertpay .. seems all very good, but im having a hard time TRYING to open an account and even the contact page doesn’t work. Are other people having the same issues or is this just me. Since we are talking money here, a non-working site does scare me a little bit
So this leaves us currently with Epassporte.
Before signing up, we read a lot about them. Come people complained and strongly advised NOT to use Epassporte, yet Paypal has thousands and thousands of people that lost even more money and still it is considered to be the reference .. so hardly advice that needs to be take seriously if you ask me.
Others blessed Epassporte by their speed and the ease of work, finally a processor had the brilliant idea to hand out debit cards to use at any ATM. Cold cash in your hands IMMEDIATELY .. From the day that Epassporte launched this idea, Ebay banned the use of the word “epassporte” on their site (you try it …) and so paypal stayed the nr1, labeling Epassporte as “scam, untrustworthy, …”
Anyway, we opened an account, pretty easy, they ask for a credit card deposit of $25, for verification purposes, strange but on the other hand, nothing amazes me anymore.
Our account was up and running in no time.
In order to get a debit VISA card, you need $30 .. we did .. and 7 days after they posted it, the new shiny card arrived. All money that is being P2Ped on the account can be deducted from any ATM immediately. We haven’t had any problems so far so at this stage (except for the $25, if i have to nag about something) i cannot say a bad thing about it. Customer service can be reached over the phone – but only if you call the business department. For some reason the personal department is very hard to get through. But as long as we get the info we need, what more do we want.
Epassporte is also offering credit card processing, yet there is a catch for us, puny individuals .. this only works on a business account and in order to get a business account, you need … a business. My initial contact with Epassporte revealed that “selling stuff online” doesn’t classify as “business” if you don’t have the paperwork to prove it. But i’ve requested to get a full resume on paper and i should be receiving that today. The business account also comes with other advantages such as sponsored accounts. Once you have a business account up and running, you can create personal accounts for nearly anyone, without having to wire that $25 verification fee ..
But as i’ve said, still unaccessible for me.
There, i have vented my monday-morning blues
Thanks for listening, peace out !
Apr 21st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Had a problem on alertpay with a payment not showing up on the clients or my account, posted on their contact us page, and on the forum – only got a response from the forum but haven’t heard from them in over a week
With money involved im not getting a good vibe.. maybe i should stay with my current provider for now
Apr 21st, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Jared, I also had to wait over a week for a response back from Alertpay, with an apology though as they had been swamped with calls ( I suppose one needs to wonder why so many calls, hey?) So maybe give them another couple of days. Was your question answered on the forum by an administrator or a member? Didn’t know there was a forum on AlertPay. How do you get to it?
Also I discovered today that all the banks except FNB accept cheques from the USA.
Seeing as Clickbank pay out commissions by cheque maybe I can sign up with them at last as an affiliate, as long as I open another account at one of the other banks.
Can anyone confirm this story and what the charges might be to process a US cheque?
Love the way this thread is going, we are all learning so much from one another. Keep it up guys!!
Apr 21st, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Marilyn, we have tried cashing in 3 US cheques with Standard Bank.
The first one was a cheque for a low amount of $50 or so. Took 8 days and several rands but the amount appeared onto our account.
The 2 other cheques were for an amount of near $2000 and that was a different piece of pie. It took 8 weeks !!! before Standard Bank informed us that there was a problem and the cheques could not be cashed in. Cheques for bigger amounts are being handed over to a Debt Collecting agency of some sorts (this is the information we received after numerous phone calls to Standard Bank, so please don’t shoot me if this isn’t accurate) and so getting concrete information – as a consumer – becomes very difficult. There are to many departments, services and phone calls involved.
As for costs, Standard bank charges 0.6% of the value of the cheque, with a minimum of R140 and a maximum of R600 per cheque.
Hope this helped
Peace out !
Apr 21st, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Hi Maxx,
Great stuff, thanks for the info. Loved your rant earlier too.
FNB actually replied by email that they don’t accept foreign cheques at all due to the verification implications. Standard Bank said I must go to my nearest branch and they will advise which is the best account to open to receive foreign cheques and Nedbank nore or less said the same thing. Absa, well my daughter has had so many bad experiences with Absa so I won’t go near them on principal.
Think I may just hang on for now and leave off joining any programs that only pay by cheque.
I have had a lot of luck with convincing all my current program owners to pay me through AlertPay even though they only usually pay through PayPal which I am very pleased with.
Apr 21st, 2008 at 11:00 pm
For some reason, i still cant seem to be able to continue on signing up for an Alertpay account .. this really removes the need for me to try them out unfortunately
Apr 21st, 2008 at 11:29 pm
@Marilyn – I deposit foreign cheques with FNB on a monthly basis without any problems? These cheques are from Google Inc, HostGator and many other affiliate networks on the Internet..
Apr 22nd, 2008 at 7:52 am
Chris M,
Very interesting. The plot thickens!!Is this a special account with FNB or a regular one like a savings or cheque account?
I have opened a savings account online with FNB and go to collect my card tomorrow. This was specifically so I can link my Alertpay account to it without any of our other accounts being at risk.
I took what FNB told me regarding their policy on foreign cheques to be final and thought it applied to all our banks,and as a result decided to avoid joining any program where they can only pay me by sending a cheque in US Dollars. ClickBank being the major one.
They are not owned by Paypal by any chance are they? Wouldn’t surprise me if they were!!
So now I would like to ask if anyone is an affiliate with ClickBank, and if so how are you paid and which bank are you with and are there any problems?
I am hearing different stories from different people with different banks receiving money in different forms. Now I’m confused!!
I think when I go to collect my Smart (savings) card from FNB tomorrow I need to ask them IN PERSON if I will be able to deposit foreign cheques into my account and if so what will the charges be and what are the clearance times. And even get that in writing and signed , LOL!
Then I will report back to you all.
CHRIS
Sorry if I’m taking this thread away from the original Paypal issue. Hope you don’t mind.
Just for the record, some of the programs where they have agreed to pay me with Alertpay have said that they would be dropping Paypal soon as they were giving them problems too. It seems Paypal is becoming less popular by the day worldwide.
CHRIS M
Are you working with ClickBank?
I hope that you don’t mind that this thread is going off track from Paypal a bit. I think we are all learning something here though.
Apr 22nd, 2008 at 9:50 am
Ye, I hear stories about people not being able to cash foreign cheques often, but I seem to have no problem at all – very strange.
Marilyn – No problem about all the comments, that’s exactly why I wrote the post and am really happy that everyone is making use of it and discussing this!
I don’t work with clickbank, at this point I’m not entirely sure which direction to go, but the best best seems like I need to fly over to the UK (I have british passport) and make a plan about opening a bank account!
Apr 22nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Just came across something that SEEMS interesting enough to read more than just the frontpage
http://www.clickandbuy.com
SA supported (they have a page for South Africa)and they appear to have some solid partners in the run.
I haven’t tried it yet nor have i read the complete site but perhaps somebody here had some experience with them ?
Peace out !
Apr 23rd, 2008 at 11:25 am
Hi Guys,
I’m back from FNB, got my account set up and asked the question. “Can I deposit foreign cheques(USD to be specific)into my account?”
The answer was YES! I was told however to expect a longer clearance time and I would also have to deposit the cheque over the counter and not at the ATM. This is understandable as you wouldn’t know the amount in rands to type in the key pad.
But the main thing is that I can deposit US cheques even though SOMEONE at FNB told me in an email that I couldn’t. I must get out of the habit of believing everything that is said in emails from FNB! From here on it’s phone calls or speak in person.
So now I’m off to sign up with ClickBank and start selling their products.They only pay out by cheque and so I have avoided signing up with them for that very reason.
Anyone got anymore stories of foreign cheques, ClickBank or AlertPay/MoneyBookers/PayPal?
Apr 23rd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
I have accounts with all the main banks. I used to be all for FNB, but that all changed. Maybe it’s my local branch, who knows?
Anyway I have deposited cheques from Google and other US companies in all these accounts. Well, FNB was the worst experience, every time. Took weeks, they would call me in, ask me questions. I felt like I was being interrogated for a crime :)
Anyway I moved all my business including depositing those cheques to Nedbank and I am glad I did. Their service is brilliant! I get my money within 5 days, no questions asked.
So I would suggest using Nedbank.
Apr 23rd, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Thanks for your advice Phillip.
I will have to wait and see how my branch of FNB behave first. But, yes, Nedbank was also reccommended to me by someone else too. But my position is that I don’t drive and my local FNB is only down the road from me so more convenient. Will see what happens with my first lot of cheques and will leave feedback on here.
Just one more thing Phillip, did you find the bank charges high for depositing with FNB and was it per cheque or according to the amount?
I forgot to ask and I don’t want to go back there just yet.
Thanks.
Apr 23rd, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Phillip – if you don’t mind me asking .. what are the amounts of the cheques you bring in (rough, don’t need the details)
Peace out !
Apr 23rd, 2008 at 3:05 pm
@max – From international sources it’s about R1100 – R3000 per check.
@Marilyn – I couldn’t find my fees for depositing cheques but I know it cheap. To clear a cheque it costs like R60. You can go have a look at FNB’s website:
http://www.fnbweb.co.za/cbs/pricingguide/Individual/English/e_Smart.asp
Apr 23rd, 2008 at 3:27 pm
@Phillip – Interesting you say that about FNB taking weeks and always calling you, this is exactly the same as my experience! Arg, South Africa banking is such a nightmare I tell ya!
@Maxx – My cheques have been up to R3500.00 and have cleared.
Apr 24th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Hi I read the whole post, phew, but thanks. I have a merchant account with an online credit card machine.
Will ebay allow me to recieve funds directly from a buyers credit card?
Will buyers be likely to purchase via this method?
Please excuse my ignorance but I am new to ebay.
Apr 24th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
At my knowledge, you need Paypal in order to function as a seller on Ebay AND you HAVE to accept it as a payment method. If you don’t use Paypal and you promote the use of other systems (such as moneybookers, epassporte, alertpay, …) they will kick you off and close your account .. (and that usually costs YOU money).
Plus, from the first of may on, Ebay will once again increase their fees and will completely change the feedback system. As a seller, you will no longer be able to rate a buyer negatively and rumours go that you no longer will be able to check a buyers ratings … A complete mess if you ask me. There is better and cheaper on the market today (check out http://www.ioffer.com and http://www.ebid.net) .. bot solid sites WITH South African support and you are NOT forced to use paypal.
Peace out !
Apr 24th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Thanks for that. I read the ebay help files and a credit card ore cheque is stated as a acceptable method of payment. It seems that they create a checkout page (I suppose secure) when you opt to pay by ccard. I have not tried this as i’m not yet registered to sell on ebay.
I will check out the other auctions you mentioned. I sell LP’s and so far it seems that the only market place is ebay.
Cheers.
Apr 24th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Checked it this morning and it seems that sales on Ebay are decreasing with an average of 16.5%.
Also read a statement of a former powerseller who was selling postcards … and on Ebay he sold on monthly bases for app $1400 … not bad .. except that he had to fork out $600 per month on fees ..
Many many people are staring blind on those numbers on the screen (THE commercial blunder of all times) but never calculate what they actually earn ! (just so that i make myself clear : revenue – ALL costs = what you earn)
Peace out !
Apr 24th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I had a quick look. Ioffer seems to have about 502 pages of records which is 10 times the amount on bidorbuy. The thing with the ebid one is that you can’t seem to search the whole world. You have to choose a country. (I think).
Going back for a proper look now.
Thanks for this though. You have given me a spark of hope.
Apr 24th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
You have to pick a country when you register on Ebid, but the seller can decide to post ONLY in his country OR on ALL of the sites … kinda cool if you ask me. Its especially the low fees that are interesting enough
Apr 24th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Yes right. Not something I had even considered as I was so concerned about not being able to trade at all. Listen thanks man, I’m bollocking up this really informative thread with my inane comments. Apologies to future readers…
Apr 24th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
100% my friend – you should have seen the bollocks i ‘ve gone through when i was still thinking that sites like Ebay and Paypal cared about us, puny South Africans … So if i can help to avoid k@k like this for my brothers out there, no effort will be avoided.
Peace out !
Apr 24th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Hi all
I followed this thread now for some time, and see some interesting postings.
If you guys want to go international use ccnow.com then you can accept CC and Paypal here in RSA ( scroll up for complete posting from me how ccnow work) ioffer is nice but sloooooowwwww (I sell there) here is a link where you can find a lot of info of the big auction sites around the world: http://www.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php also go to the forums and read it all, ask questions, the people are very help full there.
Any one here that know how we can contact google South Africa? We must try and get google to include RSA in google checkout, then you can also list your products/services in google base, and sell on sites like http://www.ecrater.com/ there you can get a shop free.
Apr 25th, 2008 at 4:43 am
Over 200 comments, this is absolutely fantastic – Thank you to everyone who has spent time commenting!
Please don’t stop, this is a really useful resource for anyone interested in online trading :)
Apr 25th, 2008 at 4:49 am
Don’t you people sleep!??
I’m pulling an “almost” allnighter tonight.
Anyway, yes Chris this post has become a reference for me to come back to for a couple of resources later.
Go sleep! Cheers,
Apr 25th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Nice example on how the internet can do some good .. the power of many, the voice of the little man
Peace out !
Apr 25th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
I have Paypal account which I use for selling items on eBay. I cannot complain about their service. If you want to deal with people in US Paypal is big. I closed my eBay account, find the fees are just getting bit too much. My next move will be Paypal. My Paypal is linked to my Irish Bank Account.
Apr 27th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
I can’t link a South African bank account to my PayPal account, despite being a verified South African (I was verified through my credit card). I wanted to be able to transfer money into PayPal (to send to others) using my bank account rather than my credit card, which has a low limit.
It’s evidently a problem with my account, since other people can link their bank accounts, but PayPal’s support has been useless. Their last e-mail said this:
“It is not possible as we have not added that feature for South African accounts. There are a large number of international requirements for adding certain abilities to accounts. At this time we do not have this ability but in the future we may soon have this ability.”
I’ve given up. It’s taken me several e-mails with them to get to this point and I just can’t get them to be helpful. It’s a pity because I like PayPal and up until now it’s been good (not that I’ve used it a hell of a lot).
Apr 29th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Update on my Alertpay problem:
2 weeks later and i still haven’t had luck getting a response from alertpay on a transaction that was debited from my clients card and it hasn’t showed up on either of our alertpay accounts.
This is unacceptable when you dealing with people’s money, I am staying away from them :(
So back to looking around for me, ccnow looked interesting, has anyone tried them yet and do they have a local bank account, and can you sell in rands and dollars? (Sigh alertpay looked too good to be true, all of the above was featured hehe)
Apr 29th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
I agree Jared, there’s nothing worse when it comes to dealing with a client, especially, when they pay money and the money just never appears :/
I hope you come right!
Apr 29th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Jared
I am very concerned to learn of your problem with Alertpay. I joined up a few months ago, but have not done any transactions yet.
However on the three occasions that I did contact them to ask something, every time I got a reply back within a couple of days.
I would like to offer to help you if you would allow me to do so.
I wonder if they would reply to me if I sent them an email requesting that someone contacts you immediately.
You never know it may work. You’ve got nothing to lose.
Not sure how you can give me your email address on here without putting it on this thread.
I’m sure Chris could put us both intouch with one another if that is what you would want.
Let us know.
Regards,
Marilyn.
Apr 29th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Sounds alarming, it seems like no matter which option we go for, we end up with dead roads, which is not what South Africa needs – this is why people of South Africa are always so pessimistic and skeptical about new systems :/
Apr 29th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Hello back peeps and i hope you are all enjoying your evening.
Alertpay .. figure that i haven’t been able to register at all for the last two weeks and i’m not able to use the contact form
Currently still using Epassporte, people often react surprised, but on the other hand … this is how it is now.
As for Paypal – have you guys been informed about their new policy, starting in the first week of May ?
It’s a big pie to post it all here, but in short
1) Paypal will be allowed to close and confiscate the money onto ANY Paypal account, for ANY reason, if THEY think that something is going on. The money that has been confiscated is NON refundable and if they can PROVE that you were busing with activities that are NOT allowed by Paypal, they can even credit your account (so far, this only works in the US .. so perhaps it isnt such a bad thing that us, puny South Africans, never could connect our bank account to it). Paypal was already hardcore in closing accounts in the past, out of the blue, but the new terms will allow them to do it without reason nor justification
2) They are no longer obliged to inform their customers about alterations made in their terms and conditions, customers will now have to contact the Paypal consumer service to know if something has changed. So it could well be that you are trading with Paypal and they block your stuff cos from day to day, you are breaking their rules.
3) THey will hand out your personal details to ALL Ebay departments, this means that any moron working @ Ebay will have a copy of your ID, a copy of your CC, … very dangerous if you ask me.
A former Paypal staff member also confessed .. it seems that Paypal DOES freeze accounts just like that, in order to get interests on the blocked money. And they UNfreeze accounts randomly, so faxing all of your crap to them has no effect at all. They use the accounts that they unblocked in the several lawsuits, to show the judge that they DO manage accounts in a proper way …
When i was done reading all of the news, Paypal started to look more and more like organized crime.
So conclusion : Paypal and Ebay – stay away from it .. opt for alternatives such as Ioffer and Ecrater and payment things like Epassporte or other ones ..
Peace out !
Apr 29th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Our maid uses the post office to send money to Zim. (She drops its off in an envelope here and they pick it up in a 1992 Toyota Hilux Bakkie on that side)
Worth a shot to go ol’ skool you know!
Apr 29th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
@HoTsTePPa: that is some funny shit yo!
PayByHilux.com – when you really absolutely guarenteed need to get yore funds in ta Zim! Accept no other!
Apr 30th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Rofl, I can see this thread going a bit messy :P
May 1st, 2008 at 10:28 am
Hi Guys,
Here is a bit of a laugh I posted a message on Gumtree feedback suggesting that they take Ebay on by allowing us to post Ads to all the Fijji sites worldwide…… My point was the Ebay/Paypal thing. Also that the fees keep increasing and PayPal keeps getting nastier.
I ended the post saying that I hope they take Ebay down as they have the market presence to do so.
Anyway, someone posted e reply stating that Gumtree/Fijji belongs to Ebay. I think the term that comes to mind rhymes with “clucking bell”.
May 1st, 2008 at 2:14 pm
lol! That’s classic, nice one Derek :P
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Lol @ Derek … yeah, Ebay is what you call a super commercial power … they own a little bit of everything .. time to pull that b1tch down if you ask me .. (my apologies for the use of language)
Back to the payment thingies ..
I’ve just finished my email (the size of a mature Bok) to Neteller .. they seem to be promoting the use of their services in South Africa as being UNLIMITED .. so i asked them just HOW unlimited and South African these services are ..
When i receive my answer, i will update you guys on this blog as well !
May 4th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Alternative CC Processor
For 3rd party or alternative high risk or low risk credit/debit card processor other than PayPal, CCBill, 2CO, epassporte and etc which are giving you problems and bad service, you should check out Crystal Payments (www.crystalpayments.biz) processor as a 3rd party or alternative credit card processor. They are able to process Visa, MasterCard credit/debit card transactions worldwide, Western union, moneygram and e-cheques for any business. I get regular payouts, monitors fraud, chargebacks and no complaints.
Tell them that Michael (iedefender) referred you to their services.
May 14th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Hi all
I regularly make use of Netcash (www.netcash.co.za) to receive my credit card payments, and have had very good experiences with them. Their support is good and they have quite low fees.
I must say not being able to use paypal in SA is a frustration, especially if you want to do buisness internationally. Hopefully this is something that will get fixed in the future.
May 14th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Hi There.
I want to get involved in internet marketing. Will Alertpay really work to get money into a South African bank acc. if so wich bank would be best to use?
May 21st, 2008 at 9:52 am
Thank you for the info. Was just about to set up a PayPal Account in SA but luckily I did not. To transfer money from my Aus bank account to SA bank account cost a lot of money each month. I thought it may be more viable to do it from paypal to paypal but I guess it is a way Banks, SARS, etc. make sure they make profit on overseas deposits! Bloody rip-off!
May 24th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Hi all
Thanks for the great post! I recently opened a US bank account and found a way to get a US postal and physical address… Will I now be able to open a paypal account, provided that I supply my ‘US’ information? By the way, I opened the account through Etrade if any1 else wants to do the same!
Thanks again ;-)
Jun 7th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
I am currently working on an eBook that offers several working solutions to the problem of accepting PalPal. Since I have to carry out a number of tests and write the eBook, this should take at least 2 to 3 weeks at most.
I will be offering the eBook in the Warrior Forum as a special offer and need local testimonials. There are ample International testimonials for those looking for a PayPal alternative because of alleged bad service by PayPal.
As such the ebook offers several working and low cost solutions, in the main, to all disatisfied internet marketers!
I must admit that I battle with making eBook covers with the titles. If someone can help doing the e-cover I will give them the free report that promotes the eBook and later, when ready, a free copy of the “PayPal Problems Solved” eBook and another high quality ebook that is a gem on starting and sustaining one’s online business in return for another high quality eBook cover.
Any takers?
Regards,
Rajesh
Jun 30th, 2008 at 7:17 am
in a marathon sitting, I just read all the postings on this thread.
My question is this:
If one gets a willing relative, trustworthy friend to open the Paypal account for you in their country, is there not a lot of admin required of them? like if something goes wrong, or i read you have to fax this and that back and forward. How much work does it involved for the person on the other side?
Thanks,
nik
Jun 30th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Hi nik, they would be able to open an account, but it cannot be in your name, the only way to deal with that is if you can prove residence and get over their to sign forms, etc. I’ve often considered flying over to set things up, I have a british passport and all that, I would just need to prove residence, which would be tricky if you think about it!
Jun 30th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
There are several other issues not calculated. The only solution would be getting a US account, cause this is the only account South Africans can add for receiving money. However, you could close your account and open your account in Country Australia and add an Australian account, but, if you log in to your Paypal from South Africa too many times Paypal will block your account as well.
There are no true solution with Paypal! SA Sucks with a combined Paypal suck, makes just one big SUCK!
The only solution that is quick and useful would http://www.2checkout.co.za/
Ryan that created the JCE plugin for Joomla is a South African and he also uses this service to meet demands for international customers.
Jun 30th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Hi Guys,
I would still have to say that both Alertpay and MoneyBookers are the way to go for us South Africans. You can send and receive funds with these two.I have been doing this successfully with Alertpay now for the past couple of months with no problems. I even funded my Alertpay account with a transfer of funds from my FNB account. I have to admit I haven’t used MomeyBookers yet but expect to receive some money into my MB account within the next two weeks. I will report back to this blog how that went for your reference.
I still use Paypal to pay out for something if there are no other options, but I would prefer not to. I have found that when I sign up with any program where they specify that they pay out with Paypal that they will willingly agree to pay me by Alertpay instead. I always ask the question first before signing up with them.
Also many more Website owners are now adding Alertpay and MoneyBookers as their preferred way of payment instead of Paypal. There are many other countries besides SA where they cannot receive money through Paypal. So with AP and MB added, this opens up new opportunities for many more people.
Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
ok, good info to know that if you log in too often from SA they will block the account!
That kind of ends that alternative.
I’m in a situation where i am wanting to sell some images online but the buyer does not
support Alertpay, Moneybookers or 2checkout etc. So while they may work and be great, the people doing the paying only use Paypal or physical check. I did see someone said they were successful in banking a check in another currency. In this day of quick clicking it seems so archaeic!
nik
Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Yea, Moneybookers are an absolute pain in the ass to deal with. I am with Absa and when you confirm your Credit Card they draw a small amount from your card. You then have to type in the amount in dollars to activate your Credit Card. Here’s the catch, mine shows in Rand, so its impossible to gues the exact amount in dollars. And they simply ignore this fact. So alertpay then should be a better option.
Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Hey jason, Ive also had “a bit of money” deducted from my account on a few occassions and have had to go and type the amount in US$. Since the amount was always in Rands – i phoned FNB (and yes, it did take about 20mins on the line before i got to speak to the right person…) and asked them what the foreign amount was. They always give me the exact amount in US$ or EUR which i can type back into my account.
Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Chris, this page is taking longer to load than myspace! I think its time to take all the content and comments up here compile it into an ebook and sell it! LOL :)
Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Hehe, mozami – I’m just trying to keep it going bud, more content means more powerful!
Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Yeah, ofcourse, its all good – i was joking about the ebook though. This particular post will also serve as a reference for others out there looking for payment solutions into RSA. btw – this post also introduced me to your great blog!
Jun 30th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Ah thanks Mozami, I will give the bank a call then. Why do we always have to walk an extra mile to get but the basic of a service.
Ai!
Jun 30th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
eBook isn’t a bad idea at all, and it is something I thought about already :)
Jun 30th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Ahh the secret formula…
1. Write ebook
2. ????
3. Profit!
Jun 30th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Erm, not that wont work Mozami, how will you receive your money :D!
Jun 30th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Haha Jason, good one ;) We might have PayPal accounts, you never know! :P
Jul 2nd, 2008 at 1:49 am
Hi Jason,
There is another option, fax or e-mail your monthly statement , (that’s mailed to you) to Money Bookers, to get someone at ABSA is a total waste of time , their system only gives the amount in Rand and not even the foreign exchange could a help to get to the correct amount
Jul 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
If I may, I would like to send you guys in a differnt direction that I’m study now the last month or 2, and that is cell phone payments and it fast comming up. In the Philipines you buy a coke at a vending machine with your cell and many more, have a look on my site and read the pdf ebook there. Payment by cell phones will be the thing one of these days.
Jacques
Jul 8th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
1. PayPal(PP) = No go
– Unless you need to hook up to eBay or other auction sites that
use PP.
– You will have to “jook” your way around “the system” to do it
(go through all sorts of acc creating)
– Proof of “No go” :
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-approved-signup-countries-outside
2. http://www.ProfitInside.com
– Looks dodge or not user friendly
– Can’t remember which comment I found this link in but I have a
tab open on it, lol.
3. http://www.Setcom.com
– Looks professional
– Looks like they have a local office or agent to contact (JHB):
http://www.setcom.com/www/index.cfm?left=pages_left&main=main&site=1&belongsto=55&page_id=528
– Fees
– Link to fees table :
http://www.setcom.com/www/index.cfm?left=pages_left&main=main&site=1&belongsto=706&page_id=711
– Link to fees policy (must read):
http://www.setcom.com/www/index.cfm?left=pages_left&main=main&site=1&belongsto=560&page_id=563
– Start Acc : R0
– Monthly Fees : R0
– Send R’s : R0
– Add R’s to Acc : R0
– Chargeback settlement fee: R150
– Selling Tools, including Shopping Cart : R0
– There are some other fees they can’t guarantee you won’t get
Check the above fee structure link and read the fine print.
– Withdraw funds (Excluding VAT)
– R8 for South African Rand
– Receive Payments (Excluding VAT)
– Credit & Debit Cards:
4.9% + R4 for South African Rand
– Receive Payments funded by POLi – Instant Bank Transfer
3.4% + R4 for South African Rand
– Receive Payments funded by Setcom Balance
2.9% for South African Rand
– Receive Payments funded by eCheque or eDeposit
2.9% + R4 for South African Rand
4. http://www.CCNow.com
– Looks professional
– US based company:
https://www.ccnow.com/cgi-local/contact.cgi?sell
– Fees
– Link to fees table :
https://www.ccnow.com/pricing.html
– Start Acc : $9.95 [R77]
– Withdraw funds (per payment):
– ACH Direct Deposit to U.S. Checking Account: $0.00 [R0]
– International Wire Transfer: $15.00 [R116]
– Mailed Check: $5.00 [R39]
– Receive Payments :
– Retail Margin : 4.99% of Gross Sales
– Per transaction: $0.50 [R4]
– Monthly fee :
– If Gross Sales for month are $0.00 – $100.00[R776]:
$9.95 [R77]
– If Gross Sales for month are $100.01[R776] or more:
$0.00 [R0]
5. http://www.AlertPay.com
– Looks professional
– Has McAffee Hacker Safe approval
– Canada & US based company:
https://www.alertpay.com/info/AboutUs.aspx
– Fees
– Link to fees table :
https://www.alertpay.com/Info/Accounts.aspx
– Start Acc : R0
– Send Money : R0
– Add Funds to Acc: Mainly R0 unless bank wire which is $20
[R155]
– *Certain industries may be subject to a fee of 3.90 % +
$0.59 USD for receiving funds and 6.40 % + $0.59 USD for
receiving funds by credit card
– Both Pro & Business Account Fees
– Withdraw funds (per payment):
– Check : $3 [R23]
– Bank Transfer : $0.5 [R4]
– Receive Payments :
– by Credit Card : 5.00 % + $0.25 [R2]
– general : 2.50 % + $0.25 [R2]
– *possible by Credit Card: 6.40 % + $0.59 [R5]
– *possible in general : 3.90 % + $0.59 [R5]
– Both Pro & Busines Account Features
– Conduct business under your name
– Low receiving fee of 2.5% + $0.25 per transaction
– Accept Credit Card payments
– Website Payments: Buy Now Buttons, Subscriptions and
Recurring Payments
– Instant Payment Notification (IPN): Real-time
notification to your servers
– Mass Pay: Send out payments to groups of people
– Business Account
– Extra Features different from Pro
– Sub accounts: Manage multiple online businesses with
one account.
– Business Tools: Integrate AlertPay into 3rd party
applications.
– Unlimited emails associated with your account
6. http://www.2checkout.co.za
– Looks like a blog
– Rather expensive compared to other vendors
– Who used this 1 again?
– US based company:
http://www.2checkout.com/community/help
– Fees
– Link to fees table :
http://www.2checkout.com/community/fees
https://www.2checkout.com/documentation/op_regs_a.html
– Start Acc : $49 [R379]
– Additional Accs : $30 [R232]
– Send Money : R0
– Receive Payments :
– per transaction: 5.5 % + $0.45 [R4]
– Withdraw funds : ?
7. http://www.crystalpayments.biz
– Dunno where they located:
http://www.crystalpayments.info/about
– No details of prices, etc:
http://www.crystalpayments.info/internetma
– Decent looking but I smell dodgeyness
– I noticed they used the same guy on the bench on the beach
for every link…I smell laziness.
8. http://www.pricetag.co.za
– Looks professional
– Slightly expensive but simple pricing structure
– Locally based company (Cape Town):
http://www.pricetag.co.za/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx
– Fees
– Link to fees table :
http://www.pricetag.co.za/ProductsandServices/tabid/54/Default.aspx
– Start Acc : R750
– Monthly Fee : R200
– Transaction Fee: 5.7% maximum
– This rate becomes negotiable to a lower level once your
monthly transaction volume exceeds R40 000-00, and if you
can maintain this transaction volume for at least 3
months. The rate to which it decreases all depends on
your transaction history, and growth potential.
9. http://www.ClickAndBuy.com
– Looks very professional
– Looks like they have big trusted clients, e.g.:
iTunes, Skype, MSN, AOL, EA, HP, Yamaha, Playboy…
– More details…speak to the sales team:
http://clickandbuy.com/US/en/prospekt/prospekt.html
10. http://www.netcash.co.za
– Looks professional
– Locally Based(Cape Town):
http://www.netcash.co.za/FrontEnd/Contact/Contactus.asp
– SARS Registration number: 2001/019308/07
– VAT Registration : 4620213522
– Pricing details
– Request a quote according to services chosen:
http://www.netcash.co.za/FrontEnd/Contact/RequestQuote.asp
– Features
– Credit Data (very cool & scary):
http://www.netcash.co.za/FrontEnd/data/credit_data.asp
– Credit Card:
http://www.netcash.co.za/FrontEnd/processing/CreditCard_Processing.asp
– Service:
http://www.netcash.co.za/FrontEnd/service/service_features.asp
Jul 8th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Thanks to TigerMunky for doing all the research!
Jul 8th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
No problemo,
I just hope we can find the “ultimate” solution for the general public…I wanna be able to say to someone if they ever asked me, to just use X or Y which is easy and reliable.
A local company with a strong brand would be nice, kinda like this one:
http://www.mwebbusiness.co.za/products.aspx?ParentID=33&MenuID=157
Just wish they wouldn’t charge like we can’t find better right? :P
~ TM
Jul 8th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Sure thing, it’s incredibly good information Tiger!
Jul 10th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Hi Guys,
Some really great info for everyone there Tiger, thanks a lot!
Has any one used a SA debit card for online overseas purchases through Worldpay or Clickbank or for anywhere other than in SA?
I have tried twice this week with these two websites and it was declined both times. Ended up having to use my credit card which went through ok and was no problem.I did have more than enough funds in my debit card account and it’s a fairly new one so it hadn’t expired but the purchases wouldn’t go through. A friend of mine couldn’t get her debit card to go through the same websites either which is why I tried to use mine for her with no luck. Her debit card is a Visa and with ABSA and mine is also a Visa with FNB.
Also regarding Worldpay, has anyone had dealings with them at all? Just wondered if S Africans can receive funds with them as well as send and not like Paypal.
Jul 11th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
so frustrated that cannot sell using paypal.
Jul 15th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Fantastic discussion, really useful. Has anyone used Shopdirect.co.za? I had a good conversation with their Sales Manager Byron Levey today, and they seem pretty sorted.
Jul 15th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Hi Arthur, I’ve never heard of the website, I shall take a trip over there a little later and have a look around, thanks for the link!
Jul 21st, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I’ve posted a similar discussion which draws heavily on all one million comments on this site (!) to summarise the options for accepting payments online if you’re based in South Africa. And it’s all linked nicely and everything! I do a lot of work with small businesses and startups who don’t want to be tied into monthly payments for having an ecommerce facility, so that disqualifies most offerings.
The site I’m working on now is selling music for R10/download – which takes out Setcom (R4/transaction). MyGate looks like the best option for me right now…R200 signup fee and no percentage per transaction, only R1.50/transaction.
Jul 22nd, 2008 at 7:27 pm
If you guys are in the mobile game, and sell anything on a cellphone site, http://bango.com work very nice and you can use it in 180 countries, and believe it or not even South Africa. You can also create a mobile website on line free, and many more.
Jul 23rd, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Hi
Maybe you answered this question already in this forum.
Are there any laws against me flying to America, visit a relative, setup a paypal account (using the US address) and earning/receiving money through my American paypal acc? Which type of visa would I require?
Jul 23rd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
The problem with that is that you need to prove residence, if you can do that, then I don’t think you’ll have a problem. I’ve often thought of flying over to the UK, I have a british passport, setting up an account and then registering for a PayPal account..
Jul 23rd, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Prove of residence is not the problem. It’s earning money while in the US while making use of paypal. Ordinarily I would have made use of other methods to receive payment. Won’t you need a work permit of some sort.
Jul 23rd, 2008 at 6:41 pm
You can do all that trouble and the third time PP see your IP with which you login from SA then they freeze your account, and bye, bye money. Also they will only send to the delivery address register with paypal if you buy something.
Jul 23rd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
I would really be in the US staying with a relative. It’s the US government and their laws that I’m worried about.
Aug 8th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Well, I ended up here while searching for a phone number to ABSA’s Cape Town wire transfer department and then became interested in reading the thread and personal experiences. However something I think has been overlooked is there are two types of penalties on foreign money transfers (forex transactions) that will reduce the money you end up with. The first is fees, something highly visible and broadly noted on this site. The second is the effective exchange rate and it serves as an invisible fee. Depending on the amount transferred, the invisible “fees” may be much, much more expensive than the visible ones.
In semi-technical terms you are getting ripped off by the spread; the spread being the difference between the rates/prices currencies pairs are bought and sold at. And here is how.
Spreads are quoted in pips. One pip is 1/100 of a percent. Currency pairs with high trading turnovers have small spreads; as low as 1 to 3 pips. Currencies with lower trading turnovers may have spreads of 150 or 250 pips. These spreads end up being the profits for the big banks that handle the transactions.
On a transfer of $100,000 US dollars into Euros, a 3 pip spread will equal $30 US. $100,000 US dollars to Rand will probably have a spread of 150 pips or $1500 US. If you look at the exchange rates posted in the front of Standard Bank in Rondebosch, what you will see is a quoted spread that is often 500 pips, which amounts to $5000 (or 5%) of that $100,000 US dollar to Rand transaction. Currency broker kiosks and other avenues for currency exchange may take an even bigger bite out of your money.
So don’t focus on the fees only. Check on the currency spreads. How good of deal you ultimately end up with will likely be based on your patience and how much shopping around you want to tolerate. In closing, there are a number of UK and Irish based currency brokers. Shopping around reputable ones for an exchange rate can be very advantageous.
Cheers, Bill
Aug 8th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Just btw, Chris, how many of your posts have over 258 comments attached to them?
Is this the longest thread on your blog?
Aug 8th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Hehe, I think this is one of the longest threads, there are a few with over 200 :)
Aug 14th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Hi all, my first visit and i have realy enjoyed reading all the highly informative posts. Well what i can say for sure is i have the answer to why payments via paypal are not allowed into SA.
I used to sell on ebay a couple of years ago, when the (ban on SA) came in it was directly from paypal and due to thousands of scammers from SA that popped out of nowhere. They listed products online from South Africa, got paid and never sent any products as they had non. Paypals buyer protection policy took a heavy knock from SA and this is the reason we are banned. SARS is not to blame or the banks, its the little scammers from SA we have to thank.
Aug 18th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Thank you to all who made my 2 hours reading WORTH IT!!! I’ve just opened up a moneybookers account and so far so good :)
Best blog so far!!!
Aug 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
That’s fantastic to hear! :)
Aug 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Thanks for all the information! I opened a PayPal account a few weeks ago and today tried to create and send an invoice and discovered that because I’m a South African resident I cannot Request Payment!! SCREAM!!! I was very pleased to see your post on this blog “Sensual_Sloth”. I’m also on iFreelance.com and I was looking to see if I could contact you in any way – and here you are!! I wanted to ask you how you get paid from USA and UK. You say that you have opened a moneybookers account. Can the project providers pay into that easily? I am not sure if I should just email the two providers who’ve asked me to do work for them and cancel – I’m very loath to do that, though…
Aug 19th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Hey There Meg ;)
LOL -I swear we’re the only 2 South African’s on that site! It’s been such a hassle but Moneybookers has been great so far!
It really isn’t such a hassle to be honest. You ask your “employee” to create an account. You create an account and then they transfer money from their bank into this moneybookers account and transfer from their moneybookers to your moneybookers (free of charge to receive money … 0.58 Euro for them to send money) … Then for 1.80 Euro you can transfer the money in your moneybookers account to any bank account in South Africa. So far it has been wonderful with the company I am working with in the UK and MUCH cheaer han wire transfer ;)
Hope this helps and my email is boselektah@gmail.com if you need ;)
Aug 19th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Thanks for all the research and information! I opened a PayPal account a few weeks ago and today tried to create and send an invoice and discovered that because I’m a South African resident I cannot Request Payment!! SCREAM!!! I was very pleased to see your post on this blog “Sensual_Sloth”. I’m also on iFreelance.com and I was looking to see if I could contact you in any way – and here you are!! I wanted to ask you how you get paid from USA and UK. You say that you have opened a moneybookers account. Can the project providers pay into that easily? I am not sure if I should just email the two providers who’ve asked me to do work for them and cancel – I’m very loath to do that, though…
Aug 19th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Hi SS :-) Thanks for the quick response and the advice. I’ll open a moneybookers and see how it goes. I’ll let you know how it goes. Bye for now, Meg
Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Hi Guys,
I have already opened my account with MoneyBookers but have not yet been in a position to receive money. Has anyone on here received money okay through them recently?
I did hear through the grapevine that within the past few months South Africans have had difficulty in receiving money through them. So if there is anyone reading this who have had money from MB then do please let us all know if you had problems.
And to Chris M thanks for a really great blog. I’m sure it has helped and enlightened so many people. Should make the Bestsellers List soon!! May it continue to grow…….
Aug 19th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
My pleasure Marilyn!
Aug 19th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
I signed up with moneybookers.com and discovered that the only method for South Africans to withdraw funds is via a visa credit card.
I have a mastercard.
I sent them an email asking how I am supposed to get my funds out.
But I think it is a bust for me, unless I am willing to go and apply specially for a visa card to use with them, which I’m not keen to do.
Aug 19th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I think a Dinners card is another way to get the money out, but I will have to confirm that though..
Aug 24th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Hi Guys
Even if you cannot use Pypal, there are a couple of Paypal alternatives that you can consider. I will list them a bit later in this post. I can see the argument about it being the SARS wanting to have a finger in every pie and that that would be the problem being paid through Pypal – but where this argument goes south is if that applies to Paypal – why does it not apply to other payment processors? Hmmm – me smells somethink fishy here…. I think it is just a way for them to get us off their backs. The main story behind this from what I have heard is that Paypal is scared of the Nigerian scamsters and that they don’t really have a way to protect themselves against it and that that is the reason why they don’t give that functionality to Saffies. Anyway, that is just what I heard through the grapevine.
Two great Paypal alternatives that work just like Paypal – are http://www.alertpay.com and http://www.setcom.com – you can pay people via email, or have credit card facilities on your site if you sell a product or service.
Hope this helps!
Joan
Sep 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
PayPal alternative for SA.
http://imod.co.za/index.php/2008/03/04/is-payfast-the-south-african-alternative-to-paypal/
Sep 3rd, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Thanks Mark, I’ve updated the link accordingly :)
Sep 6th, 2008 at 5:55 am
have just sat here for 2 hours reading and researching this thread!! would i be right in suggesting that the easiest (and relatively cheap) way to get around the paypal prob might be this: register a bank account overseas > allowing you to get a paypal account > transfer the funds from your paypal account to your bank account > then to your cousins account then they write out a check for you and send it to sa… sounds a little complicated but looks to be the cheapest way i can think of so far. (considering a lloydstsb wire transfer would cost approx. £23). awesome blog, thread and mod.
ps, payfast is NOT a paypal alternative- read all of their small print and little starred items. ciao
Sep 6th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Nope … the easiest is moneybookers.com … only charge 20 bucks for a withdrawal into your SA bank account :)… no fuss (other than the registering your bank or card account for the 1st time … but was happy to do this so as to know it was a safe option to be using)
Check them out:
https://www.moneybookers.com/app/?rid=6474207
Sep 19th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Thanks for the discussion everyone. I’ve signed up for http://www.payfast.co.za but they only accept direct EFT from other South African peeps with local Bank accounts, I’ll hang around with them till it changes, looks like it will.
My last affiliate check around $110 was not cashed by Nedbank, they said its below minimum banking requirements, even thought they deposited $10 previously, no discussions. Thank you very much but we don’t want you money sir. Bummer.
Eish, money and banks and stuff can be such a hectic thing.
Hooray for the sub-prime chaos the world is seeing now, and I hope that a more honest, equitable system of world finance will be spawned out of this morass :)
Sep 23rd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Regarding lobbying for unrestricted PayPal in SA:
1. writing to Trevor Manual – yes go for it. (hope he stays on under next president)
2. write to Virgin Money – the Virgin group has always been known to push boundaries. It may be in their interest to broker such a deal for us.
3. Maybe we should try to get in touch with Mr Elon Musk. He is one of the co-founders of PayPal, and he is a South African!!
Sep 23rd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Thanks to everyone for such a great research into this.
Alertpay looks great to me for the basic requirements we are all awaiting for a long time (i.e. Be able to sell for multi-currencies, Convert to Rands and back into the country, Competitive charges/fees/commission, and Fraud protection).
Sadly there is no module for Ubercart yet!!
Sep 24th, 2008 at 8:15 am
You can check out Beltal:http://www.beltal.com of ioffer alternative.Just try it.
Sep 30th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
This Is Gonna Take Me At Least 3 Days To Get Through All The Comments But It’s Well Worth It! Nice Blog.
Sep 30th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
X-slash-X: Indeed, unfortunately it’s turned into an extreme long thread!
Sep 30th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Or you could say, “fortunately it turned into a long thread”
Some great discussions here. And every blog owner loves this kind of interaction :)
I’m still waiting for mine to take off, haha
Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Well, ye, it’s a good thing indeed, conversation and everything is great for every blog owner, but all in all, there’s a huge amount of content to get through. I’ve actually thought about summarizing it all into a little PDF document for download..
Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Guinness Book Of Records.. Here We Come!
Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
If only! ;)
Oct 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I have just read this blog entry and ALL its replies and I am so glad I did. I opened a PayPal account a few days ago. At first I just wanted to email them and ask them to tell me what exactly my limitations are being that I live in SA before I sign up, but it kept telling me to sign up to be able to contact them – so I did. I then emailed them and their reply wasn’t a direct answer. Now that I have read this blog and the replies it has saved me many days of continuous emails back and forth I would have done to PayPal. I am also glad that you have had a variety of people reply, as now I have different perspectives from people in different fields and options/alternatives that work for them.
I found this blog through the Google search engine; I also found this petition to PayPal ‘Request for operation in South Africa’
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?sapaypal
I didn’t sign it as I am now not interested in PayPal, should I be? hmmm
Oct 10th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
The above link I gave is the petition signatures the below link is the letter to paypal administration
http://www.petitiononline.com/sapaypal/petition.html
Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
I’ve Registered With PayPal, I’ll Keep The Account Active Until One Day…. Just One Day… PayPal Allows Us To Receive Mula!!!!
Oct 11th, 2008 at 1:10 am
Hi to all,
I went through all the hassle with MoneyBookers, verified my address and credit card , also linked my Absa cheque account. I received payment from an Auzzie . At first I could not get it into my credit card but after a email to them, they suggested to use by bank account. Within 2 day I received the money in my Absa account , the fee ONLY R23.
The down side; if you sign up as an individual , the amount you can receive is relatively small in a period of 3/4 months. I did not attempt the business deal, I assume the amount would be larger .
So far so good, as for PayPal, I buy all kind of junk on Ebay , books, seed etc. use the buggers because it is convenient… but for now our Rand is much to weak , so no more junk for me.
Cheers
Tess
Oct 12th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
So With MoneyBookers You Can Receive Payment Directly Into Your Local Account? ..If So Can You Transfere Money From PayPal To MoneyBookers?
Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Yes, on the first question, but you have to pay the transfer fee first ( It showed on my credit card account, but the money went into my bank account).
Second question ; good one, in theory my be possible , but I have not try that yet, but you’ll probably have to pay fees to both institutions.
Tess
Oct 13th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Hey Tess …
Glad you tried Moneybookers – i’m loving it!!! I’ve used it successfully for 2 months now!
I only had one glitch and unsurprisingly it was my own bank’s error. I had to laugh! The bank (FNB) took R100 from a R4400 withdraw just to give you an indication. Apparently it’s for the tough hard work of calculating the exchange rate to ensure we get the right amount :-p LOL … otherwise – i’m very happy with Moneybookers and I agree with Tess … No more money for ebay *sniff* … Will just keep my Paypal in case ;)
Oct 13th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
@sensual_sloth – I must say, R100 from R4400 isn’t too bad at all, but yes, it’s such a huge task to convert the funds ;) haha
Thanks for the update, very useful to know!
Oct 16th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Hello everyone,
There has been some confusion around my comments on hijacking of this thread. My intension is not to flame or disgrace anyone, but metely preserve this thread and avoid too many external non-returning links, as simple as that.
Regards,
Christopher
Oct 16th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Hi everyone, I’ve been reading this thread since last night and finished just now. Great stuff! I am still new to this whole thing but after reading all this I came to the conclusion that we should actually just replace ebay. Does anyone know what site could be ebay’s biggest competitor. PP and ebay are synomous. We could use moneybookers or any other vehicle discussed here from another bidding site. What do u think?
O and what bothers me most about trying to use paypal from another country is the thing that they freeze your account when logging on from SA too many times. The other problems can be solved.
Thanks…great blog, I learned a lot
Oct 16th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
To someone using Moneybookers, sorry 3 questions: On the moneybookers site in fees they show under withdraw for South Africa: visa (they don’t show bank transfer or Cheques but for other countries they do) so this just means they charge the fees onto your visa? As I have learnt through your postings the service is available to South Africans. Do Moneybookers and your bank charge you? Approximately how much is the total charge in the end then?
Many thanks
Oct 16th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Hi Vonzi :)
I said it a few posts back … Very happy with Moneybookers!
Look – I only withdraw to my bank account (FNB) but they charge R23 on the business moneybookers account to withdraw any amount (Which is NOTHING!!!)
I have never withdrawn less than 4000 rand at a time and was charged R100 from FNB for “conversion purposes” which made me laugh!
All in all – a very reasonable alternative to bank transfers
Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Hi sensual_sloth :D
That’s fantastic, thanks!
Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
@sensual_sloth – Thanks for all the assistance, it’s hard answering all these questions myself, I appreciate it!
Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
@ Vonzi – No problems :) Glad I could assist!
@ Chris – Your thread helped me so much that this is the least I can do to help out ;)
Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Awesome, hope you stick around :)
Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Problem with MoneyBookers is that you have to have a VISA card. I have MASTERCARD and I’m not going to get a VISA card just so I can use their service.
I’ve signed up with loads of services and I think the one that looks the most promising is AlertPay. I’m currently integrating it into a web site for a customer.
Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
You do have a point … however, I was fortunate to have Visa already. I did look t AlertPay too in my search for the perfect option for me … and well, they just didn’t seem as jacked (in my opinion)for what i required. Also, the amount i’m saving using Moneybookers is good enough for me :)
I guess all in all it’s about individual needs at the end of the day :)
Oct 16th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
@sensual_sloth: what kind of business are you in that generates revenues of R4000?
Oct 16th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Hey Richard :)
Well I do a lot of things in order to have the freedom of working for myself ;) raning from graphics to writing to band management and event co-ordinating …
But my main reason for having Moneybookers is for my overeas freelance writing jobs. Remember you earn dollars per article and our exchange rate is working in my favour at the moment :-p … So my 2 month contract job was grand :)
Sadly it is finished … :’( *sniffles*
Oct 16th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I re-read some posts to refresh my mind on some of the points & experiences people have had. One of the things I am looking into only pays with PayPal or Moneybookers so I will have to get a Visa for that then (thanks Richard Catto for the heads up) and another only pays with PayPal or if requested AlertPay (thanks Marilyn). Thanks to this thread I feel confident now to get both (thanks all!)
Thanks Chris M for making all this possible to achieve and brining it together “knowledge is power”
Time to send, receive and withdraw! :D
Oct 17th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Thanks Chris your site makes for very interesting reading and you probably will make the Guiness Book of Records with it eventually :)
A warning to those using Moneybookers though – I’ve had a Moneybookers account since January, only used for buying in Europe to date but there is no problem in receiving transfers to SA – they have an FNB account in Cape Town.
Only problem is my account recently got cleared out in a phishing scam directed at Moneybookers (apparently so did a lot of others accounts as well). Fortunately the balance was minimal at the time, but I certainly haven’t used it since!
Moneybookers did absolutely nothing about this nor did it warn other customers of the phishing current scam. Their security centre is totally useless and no-one there seems to be able to communicate in English.
My interest in the thread is that I want to trade on eBay globally (it is after all still by far the No.1 global auction site) and to do this I need a Paypal account into which I can receive payment. (eBay UK does not even allow items to be listed unless the seller accepts PayPal – so AlertPay, Epassporte, Moneybookers, etc. aren’t an option anyway.
So, summing up the info provided by all the helpful participants above it appears not too difficult to open either a US or UK bank account, receive a debit card with which to withdraw money in SA, use a non-SA email address and provide a friend’s overseas address when applying for Paypal.
But how much certainty is there around the facts of your PayPal account being frozen/closed if you access it too often using an SA IP address? Are those that have had their PayPal accounts closed absolutely certain that it was due to their IP addresses and not because they were trading in eBay’s disallowed products (webhosting, etc.)?
I’ve asked Paypal about this and they assure me that the bank account/ overseas address is the only problem. The Email received from PayPal is attached below.
My Original Message (3rd communication – they don’t generally give straight answers)
—————-
Hi Angeli
So if I close my existing Paypal account and open up a new UK Paypal account, providing a UK bank account and address, then I will be able to sell and you will make payments into
that account?
Is this what you are telling me?
Kind regards
Geoff ***
Dear Geoff ***,
Good day! Thank you for contacting PayPal. Hi, my name is Fe. I am more than happy to assist you in all your PayPal concerns.
Geoff, this is in response to your email dated 10/12/08. I have read your email and I understand that you are inquiring if you will be able to sell and received payments to your account.
Yes, you are right. With your new account, you will now be able to sell and receive payment to your account.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Fe
PayPal, an eBay Company
Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. All rights reserved.
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A.
Société en Commandite par Actions
Registered Office: 5th Floor 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg
RCS Luxembourg B 118 349
Any comments or advice will be most welcome. Thanks again Mike!
Oct 17th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
More info around the IP address problem. Check this site. http://www.hide-my-ip.com/faq.shtml
The Premium Service for $7 per month extra allows you not only to hide your IP address but to choose another from UK, US and you can always use this same foreign IP address.
Could solve the problem.
Oct 17th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Lets All Remember Here That The Key Word Is “PayPal”, From what I’ve Read.. Moneybookers Is Great And All BUT We Need A Solution For PayPal!!!!!!!!!
Oct 17th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
@X-slash-X: There is no solution for PayPal. If you’re South African, living in South Africa, without a foreign bank account and unwilling or unable to open one, you’re “shit out of luck” if you want to use PayPal to do anything but pay other people.
Furthermore, if you misrepresent yourself as being resident outside of South Africa and you utilise a bank account in a foreign country to withdraw funds you run the risk of PayPal freezing your account if and when they discover your misrepresentation. You may even be criminally liable on a charge of fraud.
There is no direct solution (because it is dependent upon PayPal changing their policies towards South Africans) but there are workarounds. If you wish to transact with foreigners to receive their funds, there are other viable working solutions.
I think what Chris could do is collect stories and testimonies from various people and write a new post detailing the experiences of South Africans trading online.
Oct 18th, 2008 at 10:24 am
@ Geoff – I’m sorry to hear about your experience with Moneybookers, that is not just a minor incident. I hope they have jacked up their system against phishing scams since then. I will have to make sure I withdraw from the account on a regular basis.
@ Richard Catto – Thanks for clearing that up about PayPal, personally I would not take the risk of my account being frozen or being possibly charged on a criminal offense.
I also think that if more South Africans misrepresent themselves won’t this then make PayPal less inclined to extend their services to South Africans?
Great idea about Chris grouping the stories & testimonies together – it would make it easier to remember what people have said about the various alternatives and their pros and cons. When Chris has time to do this ;)
Oct 18th, 2008 at 11:09 am
@vonzi – The problem is phishing has nothing to do with the actual bank / website so there is not much they can do apart from warn people
In case anyone is wondering phishing is basically where a person makes an email/website thats ment to imitate a proper website to obtain login or other information from people when they visit the fake site thinking its the real one, normally invited to do so by email.
Oct 18th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
@Jared – aaahh ok thanks. Could they not improve their authentication process, or a lock IP service whereby they link my IP address with my account and therefore only from my computer can I log into my account (haha I don’t even know if that’s possible) – I suppose hackers have a way around that though too.
If I never follow any of the email links, have Microsoft Phishing Filter and if I wish to go to the site go to my own saved link will I be safe to continue using Moneybookers?
Oct 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 pm
I have bought an ebook webstore from an ebay seller who I also payed to setup my website. Having a paypal account I was sure that the automatic checkout system would work fine. When everything was setup and the seller checked the checkout he then got the message that payments could not be received through paypal by South Africans!
I am desperately looking for an alternative for my non functioning website and discovered your forum. Read all the posts and started to go through all the links.
Now I am confused! Did anyone noticed this or am I missing something. Please check out this link
http://www.setcom.com/www/index.cfm?left=pages_left&main=main&site=1&belongsto=706&page_id=708
Setcom does not allow South Africans to send money internationally because quote** Sending money internationally is not available as it is prohibited by the laws of the country unquote
Oct 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
@Rina: Use AlertPay, if eBay allows you to.
I have been working with AlertPay’s IPN (Instant Payment Notification) to integrate it for a customer and it’s much easier to work with than Setcom’s synchro.
Oct 23rd, 2008 at 6:55 am
@Richard: I am very new to all this and has learned a lot from this forum, thanks Chris. I have read the user agreement of Alertpay and not sure how to deal with this:”Disclosure to Customers. Prior to AlertPay providing the Services in relation to a Customer, the Merchant shall deliver, by postal mail or e mail, its full legal name, street address, telephone number, and e mail address to each such Customer and provide AlertPay access to records of such correspondence, upon request by AlertPay;” Firsty I have an automated payment system on the website. Must I now have a kind of response system that sends my personal details to the customer before they pay? Secondly, I don’t mind disclosing my name, tel no & e-mail address but my personal street address? Thirdly, should I keep a record of each and every sale’s e-mail send prior to payment, for proof to Alertpay?
Oct 23rd, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Hi All
I have a couple of postings on this thread. In one of them I did a WHOIS on http://www.payfast.co.za. At that stage they where still in beginning beta stage and things didn’t look :) to great.
I didn’t stop there I watch them closely, join up test the system and also use it in my Bid or Buy account, and then I decide I would like to know what is their future plans, because like you guys know you can actually only use one payment processor on your site. I got hold of the owner Jonathan Smit number and talked about 30 minutes with him on the phone and ask a million questions, and must say I’m impress with what is still coming. Credit card payments is next, you don’t need a merchant account but can still accept CC’s online, cost not final. A hosting of a shopping cart that you can rent and use, sound something like CCNow. This very hand if you can build a basic site and then use the shopping cart. Also integration with some free online shopping carts and many more to come. One last thing he didn’t say it direct or confirm anything, but it sound like paypal will never come to RSA.
Hope this help some of you.
Regards
Jacques
PS
Anyone here read Chris bid or buy thread?
Oct 23rd, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmm … I have not, but now i’m interested!!! :D
Oct 24th, 2008 at 1:36 am
@Rina: AlertPay discloses your details to your buyer. They probably have not updated their TOS to reflect that.
By law, customers have a right to know the registered physical address of a business.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 1:39 am
The bidorbuy process went smoothly so far. I’ve received confirmation about delivery of the goods, so it’s 3-14 working days until I’ll really know the outcome :)
Oct 24th, 2008 at 1:43 am
@Jacques: If you need a shopping cart facility and your own online store, look at osCommerce. It’s free software, however I’ve seen some web development guys offering their services to set it up. One quote I saw was R12 900 which sounds excessive. Either that or I’m way too cheap. :)
Oct 24th, 2008 at 6:44 am
@Richard I see the guys are totally mad with prices. I have no programming experiences but I build my own little cart (www.allandall.co.za) the only problem I cant include any payment processor besides bank transfer (EFT).
The way payfast cart will work is you create pay now buttons on their site add it to your product, the client click the button and a secure web page open and a form show what you added to your purchase and ask you if you want to continue shopping, you then just add till you finish and pay one time, and this whole system is on there secure server, so no problems with all the security and stuff. I know CCnow have the same system. You can integrate payfast with oscommerce at the moment, I had a look there but think if I have to setup my own oscommerce shop I will have to pay the people in the end:)
Good weekend every one.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 7:51 am
It is all well to think that R12500 is way expensive for setting up a shopping cart, but it is actually cheap. If you think of the time and training that has to go into it. I setup solutions myself, and have stopped this business model due to these amounts not being sufficient to cover your time spent in the end of the day. – even if the software is obtained free (you remain responsible for support)
If R12500 is too much for you, I would suggest that you teach yourself some programming knowledge and then do it for free yourself. If not, then you should be willing to pay the prize.
In fact, to setup an e-commerce solution should cost you more if you want that business to be successful and things to be done properly!
I have charged one of my customers almost R80′000 to set something similar, and he made within his first month alot more than that!
Rather get yourself a web developer that takes some responsibility for the work he does for you, and places you in control of the system! And don’t think SEO is a must – SEO is just a money making gimmick, you need to think creatively and apply good old marketing techniques, but do so uniquely to the Internet!
Oct 24th, 2008 at 8:00 am
@leon
The whole point of this thread is that if we HAD paypal, the average pc user could setup their online shop and sell their goods at a very low cost and technical level, and def not for R12k!
From your post you seem to indicate that small time online sellers shouldn’t bother if they are not going to go big?
I think most people here are not big retailers who would like a web cart, they are selling their own unique product or service but the lack of paypal is making this next to impossible to do it and make money
Bit off topic: I get all my traffic from search engines, in the beginning i took out adwords but now its ALL SEO and word of mouth…
Oct 24th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Wow this topic has suddenly teken a 180 degree turn.
@ Leon … You were obviously offended at someone speaking of expensive developers yet you do the same thing by ripping my “business” to shreds. I am a freelance SEO writer and I can promise you this … it works! That being said, I have no doubt that decent web development, in conjunction with SEO writing, can only give a website based company top marks when it comes to search engine traffic.
Simple marketing.
Now this thread is here to help all of us with regards to solutions similar to paypal, which, up until now, we have been pursuing responsibly. Let’s continue and leave our work opinions to ourselves before this thread becomes nul en void.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Ok to balance my off topic reply there i shall post some info :)
Alertpay: Joined up, lack of support for shopping carts sucked, implemented it into my own custom site. They buggered up my first order through them, went straight back to my vcs.co.za account.
PROS- low costs, anyone can join, RANDS, EFT into local bank account (to be confirmed?)
CONS- customers must sign up before they can pay you, like paypal but another barrier between the customer buying your product!
Customer service sucks, ive yet to get a refund on the money i lost 3-4 months ago (under R100 but still!)
If you can afford the R140 pm vcs fee, and can wait 15 days for your money i would recommend vcs. If you then get your merchant account later on they pay you straight away after settlement. Great solution to grow with you
Oct 24th, 2008 at 10:51 am
My appologies if I have offended anyone, and being sligtly off topic, but being a developer, I find that people do not want to pay for things what they are worth.
We use 2Checkout (2co) very successfully in South Africa. They do have their own issues. And you only pay a one time setup fee of $49, and no monthly fee.
The example of R80′000 cost for a website that I have used is using 2co, and is not a big time retailer. The payment was based on performance!
We did not go for AlertPay, because there is simply too many steps for the customer before he pays. We have brought the payment screen down to 1 page with 2co. And another issue is, if the person have to first create an account with AlertPay from your website, they sometimes never get asked to pay by AlertPay – We reported it to them and they confessed that it was a bug. But we did not try again to test it out, since we moved to 2co.
People in South Africa do not really worry about paying in USD. Some do, but many don’t.
The nicest thing about 2co is the Payoneer opportunity, and looking at the USD vs Rand recently, it is even better than ever.
The second nicest thing is that we can accept Paypal payments this way as well, as 2co allows it.
The only thing is, 2checkout is very strict during the account approval stage, and you need to make sure that you satisfy all the criteria, otherwise you waste time.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 11:21 am
@leon
Thx for the info, I sell to mostly expats with family in the country and im sure they wouldnt mind paying in dollars
Will give 2co a look again, what made me change my mind was the paypal part, remember seeing something about that (i pay someone often on 2co) but forgot
Will probably use vcs for local people and 2co for my customers oversea’s
Oct 24th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
@Jacques: “the only problem I cant include any payment processor besides bank transfer”
AlertPay offers advanced integration for web developers to integrate carts with AlertPay. Then you use their IPN to log info about the transaction and take any actions you need to perform.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
@Richard, I have even found some limitations with AlertPay integration. It does not post back information with the simple integration method. And as said earlier, I found a bug which have chased away some of my customers. – The account creation issue also is cumbersome for my customers.
Customers must have one checkout page, and these shopping carts that take you trough 4 to 6 pages before the guy pays is stupid. My experience shows tremendous increases in profit if those screens are scaled down to a minimum. One can get a way with two at most.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
@Leon: “I have even found some limitations with AlertPay integration. It does not post back information with the simple integration method.”
It most certainly DOES and I have proved that in tests conducted with the AlertPay IPN php class I have written, which logs all info received to a MySQL database.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
AlertPay now automatically creates accounts for people paying with their credit card and emails the person their login info after the transaction has been completed.
It now takes exactly two screens to complete any AlertPay purchase.
Oct 24th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
@Richard: Thank you for the info regarding AlertPay. It surely looks like a solution. Can AlertPay pay my money to my cc? Can I deceide when I want the money payed out?
Oct 24th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
@Rina: You add your bank account details to your profile and you select when to withdraw and which bank account it goes into. The fees for withdrawing are very reasonable, cheaper than payfast, for instance.
Oct 25th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
@Richard: “It most certainly DOES and I have proved that in tests conducted with the AlertPay IPN php class I have written, which logs all info received to a MySQL database.”
You are talking about the advanced integration and not the Standard Integration. Standard integration does not allow IPN usage. See link to the issue below.
http://dev.alertpay.com/forums/t/2355.aspx
In order to keep things simple for people who do not want advanced integration, they could post some information back with standard integration. (And then people wonder why developers have to charge what they charge…) – It is because people do not keep things simple…
Oct 27th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Hello All,
Thanks for this forum, wish I had found it earlier. I have spends hours and hours trying to find a solution to this Paypal problem. There is NO direct solution for us as South Africans to open a Paypal account. Paypal requires an account and residential address in the same county. So a Swiss account and a UK address won’t work. Add to that the geo-IP tracking that they use and you’re asking for trouble. Even if you use IP blocking, you’re taking a chance. If you are running a business you cannot afford to misrepresent your self in any way. If you’re discovered, your business is ruined!!! And if you get a friend overseas to operate the account for you, they are liable for tax according to their own countries’ tax laws. So this just exposes your friend to liability. Not good for keeping friends:(
2CO is definitely an option but their list of “prohibited” products is pretty extensive. Be sure to check it out before signing up with them. And yes, they thoroughly check your shop before activating your account.
Moneybookers works but is not good for digital delivery goods. The client can order, commit to upload funds on Moneybookers and return to your site with an ‘approved’ transaction. Do the download and then go cancel the fund upload on Moneybookers. You can get a ‘paid for’ Moneybookers module for Virtuemart that will actually verify that the money is in your Moneybookers account before updating the client’s order status. So if you are planing to sell digital goods via Moneybookers, just check your delivery options.
In our current climate, I would make one suggestion to anyone in this field. Start a local company (you can buy a shelf company off the internet) and start an offshore entity (again, all via the net). Then sign up with 2CO (or whoever) using the offshore entity. All payments come via 2CO to your offshore entities account (offshore entities can open accounts in most major currencies). Then create an invoice from your local company to the offshore entity for site admin, SEO or whatever. Then do a bank transfer from the offshore account to your local business account, to cover all your monthly expenses/salaries and maybe a R20 profit. Declare the profit and pay the tax!
Make sure the offshore entity is listed as the website owner on the WHOIS and then create a ‘contract’ between your local company and the offshore entity. So your local company is merely contracted to see to the running of the site.
Yes, if 80% of the admin decisions are made here, then you should be taxed locally. But if your offshore entity has nominee directors in the state of incorporation, eg BVI, then 100% of the decisions are being made in the BVI. You merely have a power of attorney to conduct business on behalf of that entity. Most tax haven’s will only reveal the true ownership of that company in the case of a criminal investigation. Tax fraud is a civil case, not criminal. This way your profit stays in a tax free, protected offshore entity. And then if you ever want to leave the country (just maybe) you don’t have to worry about how to get your money out!
I know it’s a little off topic (sorry Chris) but it’s a good idea for any SA internet business that deals with overseas clients. Using the offshore entity, means that you don’t have to represent yourself as being from SA and you therefore won’t be associated with the 419 scammers simply because you live on the same continent. But it won’t help you to get Paypal either!
Oct 27th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
@Leon: No, Leon, I am talking specifically and precisely about the STANDARD integration method. I tested it and it works. Both standard and advanced integration return data to the AlertURL which is the script the seller installs (on their web site) to process AlertPay’s IPN (Instant Payment Notification).
Nevermind what that forum entry says. I have direct first hand experience of integrating AlertPay IPN. You could say that I am an expert on it now.
I have written a PHP5 class that logs all IPN data to a database as well as debug info to a text log file for troubleshooting and testing purposes. Using that class, I wrote a script that automatically emails a purchased ebook to the buyer upon a successful transaction.
If you wish to contact me in this regard, email rrcatto gmail com.
Oct 29th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Hi guys, I probably should not even comment here, as I am not a trader, but a ghost writer who writes about anything from termites to extreme ironing as a sport, and am a self-confessed Internet addict. I have been utterly fascinated by this thread for months now and thoroughly enjoy the comments and learn a lot. I gave up on most methods to get paid without losing half my income in bank fees etc. I happily toodle off to the Forex every month and grab my money via old-fashioned moneygrams. Just wanted to tell you all to keep the thread going, I love it. Respect to you all.
Oct 29th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Hi Felidae :)
I’m also a writer and have found the best method of receiving money is via moneybookers.com :)
See … not all traders here ;)
Oct 29th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
I wanted to add that if you use 2CO, your clients can pay using their Paypal account. So indirectly, 2CO can give us South Africans the ability to accept Paypal payments.
Nov 2nd, 2008 at 1:23 pm
We all go on about PP I think …. you know what I want to say. I know here is people here and Chris yourself that know how to get hold of Google South Africa, speak to them so that we can start using Google Checkout, there is some very nice places where we can use them to sell international, here is one I just love this site: http://www.ecrater.com/ and this one is for all the arty crafty people http://www.etsy.com/.
I think we must stop complaining and start to accept PP is not interest in RSA, so lets look for alternatives. Google is always promising what they want to do for Africa and all the normal bla bla marketing, so let us start step on their toes. What do Chris and the readers say.
If alertpay, moneybookers and 2CO, can pay us here(RSA) and Payfast start moving up the ranks, why can’t a company that is prepared to fight the mighty MS not do it.
PS
Hell can see its time for my 3rd Ritilan :)
Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
To help you guys to integrate your websites with 2checkout, I have created a script for you guys to freely use. I decided to make if freely available for now. It secures your download information, and authenticates against 2checkouts variables that is passed back. This is almost like a very small shopping cart, but not quite. You can define numerous products. So now it is almost as easy as Paypal to start accepting payments. Just upload the file to your hosting account, and link to it within any page on your site and youre done!
Tell me what you think of it.
The link: http://easy-2checkout-integrator.com/
Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I have created a script that will help any beginner to Integrate with 2Checkout. I am providing it for free download. It will check the validity of the transaction before sending the user to your download page. It also hides the real url to your download page. But you can read more here: http://easy-2checkout-integrator.com/
Nov 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Hello Leon,
Could you help me integrate 2CO with Virtuemart/Joomla. I am struggling with the return URL. You can get hold of me through via: doug@hoseck.com
Thanks
Nov 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
hi am just wondering are there any other sites besides bid or buy/ebay and delcampe where u can buy stamps on auction..thanks
Nov 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Interesting question Gary, bit off topic here, but hopefully someone will be able to help you out :)
Nov 3rd, 2008 at 6:27 am
Gary as Chris said off topic but try here: http://www.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php I don’t know if all the auction sites their do, but have a look. Also go to the forum there is also a lot of info. At least the websites mention there is save to buy from.
Chris maybe a idea, I read somewhere on the blog, you understand google and know how to find something with a search, start a new topic: “You are looking for …….????” :)
Nov 3rd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
LOL … it surpises me how many people don’t yet know how to use google and similar search engines (though I still find Google more user-friendly than the others) … i mean, that’s how i found this wonderful blog ;)
Nov 6th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Use AlertPay.
They transfer direct to your SA bank account from their FNB :) and only takes 2-3 business days.
I have several marketing websites all over the world and have now replaced all my paypal code with alertpay.
Now I don’t have to worry about how to get my money.
Nov 8th, 2008 at 9:47 am
PayPal problem solved: The big international banks have offices in SA. Knock on their door and open a UK or European based account in GBP or EUR, they will also give you a credit card if you ask for it, then link that to PayPal. If the Pounds or Euros get into the credit card account you can withdraw the cash at any ATM.
Nov 8th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
@Anon: Again, that is not a solution because when you open a PayPal account you have to tell them what country you’re from. If you answer honestly and put South Africa in as your answer, it doesn’t matter even if you have a US bank account, they still limit you to only sending funds.
If you answer dishonestly and put in Great Britain or some other option that allows you to receive funds, then you are committing fraud and risk two penalties:
a) Your account will be frozen
b) You might face criminal charges
PayPal cannot be used by South Africans to send and receive funds, unless they are living abroad.
Nov 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I think I have come to the simple conclusion of PayPal (who you callin pal? I’m not your pal):
Screw PayPal, we being South African, shall do things in ye ol traditional fashion which is that we shall “maak a plan”!
:P
Nov 8th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
@Richard,
South Africans , like me have a PayPal account,
I can send money to any other PayPal account holder or seller… the sellers on Ebay just LOVEEE our money. But we can’t be the sellers!!! they don’t want there money in our hands. Stuff them!!
Tess
Nov 17th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
wel i cudnt read all the post but the issue is that this inflow restriction does not affect the foreign investment coming in RSA. But it would be a great advantage to the economy, reason being people then buy stuff with the money they made online, more spending means higher output…. and yes higher output means more employment opportunities and growth of SA economy. Generally i think some of SA policies are redundant in that they do not support economic growth, yet SA really needs tht. The idea may be to collect all th income tax bt it is actualli limiting the inflo of income,therefor no tax to charge. Just let people make money over the internet and if they dont pay tax, charge them with tax evasion…..and also remembering thy helpd create employmnt for some guy in Kyaletsa in the process.
Great debate hear.
Nov 18th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
interesting issue.
Nov 25th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
I bought something on Ebay over the weekend and on Sunday the seller contact me to ask if we can canceled the deal, the article was double listed. If you look at the amount of listings this seller had something like it is possible.
Any way I already paid on Saturday, but said it is alright. Only after I return the email I realize I paid with paypal, now how I’m going to get my money back, decided to wait till last night to send email, totally forget, tonight my money is back in my CC.
Moral of the story, if they(PP) want to pay us in RSA, they can.
Nov 25th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Yes Jacques, I’ve had that happen to me before also. In fact a few times. As you say, they CAN pay us in RSA but obviously they don’t want to. Mmmmh, seems like we will never really know what’s going on there.
Dec 7th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
PAYPAL issues: This is the status quo based on my experience up to an hour ago.
Yep, we all know you can pay with paypal.
Yep, you can receive money based on the administration part of paypal
1. Verification of you account (they transfer some small amount to ensure you are real).
2. You will receive refunds.
BUT YOU CANNOT DO BUSINESS SELLING BECAUSE PAYPAL CANNOT TRANSFER MONEY INTO YOUR ACCOUNT. (Not because they can’t but because it will be “illegal”)
I tested a purchase via my online shop just now (Http://truthtraders.com) and a nice screen comes up that says “Currently PayPal accounts in South Africa are only able to send payments. This recipient is not eligible to receive funds.”
Now if you are South African, or live here, you do not have to spend hours looking for the answer as to why Paypal does not process money transfers into SA.
The SA government does not allow that, because they cannot control the income you will receive…PERIOD.
To look for excuses as to if it is Paypal or not is futile (Why would they make their lives more complicated by stopping an otherwise automated process.)
What to do now is the key…….. For now, until I find a way around it (cause not all of us has overseas connections) participate in the petition:- http://www.petitiononline.com/sapaypal/
Thank you.
Dec 8th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
@Gary: The issue of WHY PayPal does not allow South Africans to receive money has been discussed up and down in this thread.
The idea that it is ‘illegal’ due to an SA government restriction has been rejected because other payment services do allow SAs to receive funds.
You used the word ‘control’ which is incorrect. The government does not seek to control what money a South African citizen makes since we have a Free Market economy. The word you probably meant was ‘track’.
However, SARS can track what funds you receive into your bank account, very easily. They cannot directly track cash you receive into your hands. The way SARS gets around that is to examine a taxpayer’s lifestyle and the assets they possess and see if that matches up with the revenue they declare on their tax forms.
So the conclusion we have reached is that PayPal policy alone is responsible for our lack of ability to receive funds. We have speculated as to the reason and the one that fits logically is that they classify South Africa as being a high fraud risk.
Dec 8th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
@Richard: The government does in fact ‘control’ the flow of money. We have trade and exchange control laws covering the sale and purchase of many goods & services across SA’s borders. For the most part these are reconciled by SARS by having banks report on all foreign exchange transactions (this is a legal requirement).
The reason why Paypal doesn’t operate in SA where other services do, is that Paypal’s opertion gives you an “account” with which you can transact, which makes them a bank under SA law. As such they have to comply with the banking laws, in particular by complying with the Financial Intelligence Centre Act (FICA). Other acts also have bearing, including FAIS, the Banking Act, and various exchange control regulations.
If Paypal merely received funds on your behalf and paid them into your SA bank account – with no ability to transact using the received funds before they pass through the SA banking system – then there wouldn’t be a problem. But the transaction facility allows for tax evasion and money laundering, so Paypal would need to register as an appropriate instutition (time, effort, etc) which they have obviously judged not to be worth the effort.
Twylite
Dec 8th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
@Twylite: The SA government controls how much money can be taken OUT of South Africa (via exchange controls), not how much money can come INTO the country. Anyone is welcome to bring as much money as they like into the country.
A famous example is Mark Shuttleworth who intended to repatriate the $200 million he received from selling his company (Thawte) to Verisign, but he changed his mind when he discovered that once in this country, he would not be able to freely move it back across our borders.
I’m unsure whether AlertPay and others, which offer the same services that PayPal does are registered as Banks in South Africa. I somehow doubt that they are, but I can check.
PayPal (and others) specifically state in their Terms and Conditions that they are not Banks. I think you’re wrong, and if I get a reply from AlertPay I may be able to prove it too.
Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:09 am
@Richard: SARB exchange control manual F.4 4.1: “Regulation 6 requires all persons resident in the Republic to sell to an Authorised Dealer within thirty days of accrual, foreign currency to which they may become entitled. This regulation covers not only the proceeds of exports, but also the proceeds of any asset sold abroad. The scope of this regulation applies to all foreign currency accruals from any source.”
You are, as a resident in SA, not allowed to hold foreign currency for more than 30 days, nor are you allowed to trade directly with foreign currency without declaring it to an authorised dealer and converting to Rands first (”Setting-off of foreign commitments against foreign accruals, whether of a current or capital nature, is prohibited unless prior approval of Exchange Control has been obtained.”). This is to prevent tax evasion and money laundering.
Also “In terms of the powers vested in it by Regulation 8, the Treasury hereby prescribes that, except with the permission of a bank authorised under the Exchange Control Regulations to deal in foreign exchange, Republic currency may not be received in payment by any person in respect of goods exported by him from the Republic.”
You are only allowed to receive foreign currency payments for exports.
See http://www.reservebank.co.za/ for more of this.
You should also be aware that Shuttleworth required permission to sell to Verisign in the first place (for various reasons related to exchange controls on movement of capital, one of them being that it is illegal to transfer Intellectual Property out of the country without Reserve Bank approval – “The transfer of South African owned intellectual property by way of sale, assignment or cession and/or the waiver of rights in favour of non-resident in whatever form, directly or indirectly, is not allowed without the prior approval of Exchange Control.”).
There are a number of other things that you can’t export without permission (e.g. arms). The net effect of this is that the SARB authorises a limited number of banks as foreign currency dealers, and all foreign currency transactions MUST be processed through those banks according to various regulations, including exchange control forms declaring what is being exported, to where, for what value, etc.
PalPal’s terms and conditions have no bearing on the classification of their operation under SA law. See http://www.acts.co.za/banks/1__definitions.htm for the definition of “the business of a bank”, in particular “the acceptance of deposits from the general public … as a regular feature of the business in question”.
Also, per FICA “An accountable institution may not establish a business relationship or conclude a single transaction with a client unless the accountable institution has taken the prescribed steps …” See http://www.acts.co.za/fica/sch_1_schedule_1_list_of_accountable_institutions.htm for the “accountable institutions” to which the FICA identification of clients requirement pertains, in particular (6) a person who carries on the business of a bank, (10) a person who carriers on the business of dealing in foreign exchange, and (19) a person who carries on the business of a money remitter.
Twylite
Dec 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
@Twylite ; My! you are well informed. For the first time I get the big picture on this issue. Understanding better, made me think , if PayPal should register as a banking institution under our banking laws, then they would not be able to offer lower fees/banking charges than our/their banks, due to the whole process.
I must say , regrettably , that I can see why our laws prompt PayPal to not invest into complying with it. To our government this is surely not an issue, to busy doing politics.
Thanks!
Tess
Dec 11th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
@Twylite: As interesting as your discourse is to read, none of what you have stated applies to PayPal transactions.
Lest people miss the salient points in the flood of information you have provided, let me distill things down to a single easily understood paragraph:
PayPal is not a bank nor does it accept direct deposits. It merely facilitates payments from one party to another, taking a commission off each transaction in remuneration for its services.
Neither does PayPal allow foreigners to pay South Africans with local SA currency because, to repeat myself, PayPal does not accept direct deposits, instead it withdraws funds from the foreigner’s local bank account attached to their PayPal account and sends foreign currency to the South African PayPal account. Well that’s how it would function, if we could receive funds.
PayPal operates in a similar manner to the way 20twenty did. 20twenty was not a bank in its own right. In order to operate they had a sponsoring bank which was initially Sanlam. Their service operated from Sanlam bank accounts. When Sanlam collapsed, all 20twenty accounts were frozen – I was one of the “lucky” ones, so this story is fresh from my own personal first hand experience.
So, you see, it is quite possible for a financial service to look very much like a bank until you look more closely at how they internally operate and discover that they’re actually a value added service piggy backing upon a real bank or real banks. Spot the pun, if you can.
Dec 11th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
I think you mean Saambou, not Sanlam, Richard.
Dec 11th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
@Political debate forum: Ja, hello, I need more coffee. At least someone is awake, and I provoked a lurker to make his first comment.
Chris, what do I win for that?
Dec 11th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Okay, one last time:
1. Paypal is a money remitter. They are within the scope of FICA’s KYC regulations. Right now they don’t obtain or keep the necessary records to comply.
2. Paypal could partner with a licensed SA bank, as you suggest. But right now they don’t.
3. Every heard of the “Paypal balance”? You can deposit money, for micropayments, and withdraw money. You can get a credit card linked to your Paypal account (* in participating countries). Gee, doesn’t that sound like … a BANK?
That’s how Paypal operates overseas, and that’s the functionality (most of) their merchant offerings are based on. Payments you receive go into your Paypal account (a transactional account, not just a balancing owing to you) from where you can make payments or withdraw the funds.
But hey, what do I know? Law was only _part_ of my degree after all, and I’ve only been in the payments industry for 8 years.
So please, go ahead and ignore the SARB exchange control manual – it’s lots of nasty legalese in black & white after all – believe whatever you want about why Paypal is an Evil Company that Won’t Play in SA. How you flaunt the exchange control laws really doesn’t affect me :)
Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Moneybookers is no longer allowing payments from US customers to international customers is alertpay any good coz i do not have any options left, i do lots of freelance work for US customers.
Dec 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am
AlertPay stays my favourite option :) topdog,
money transferred direct to your bankaccount :)
I use it for my hosting business and various subscription and sales sites. Never had any problems getting my money.
Dec 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
What bothers me however is they are running on a M$ windows platform. information disclosure is the major threat.
Dec 18th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
@TOPDOG – Moneybookers is still paying out to SA customers. Where did you hear that they are not?
Dec 18th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
@Phillip, thats correct they are still paying to SA customers but US customers cannot pay international customers anymore including SA customers.
Was told by one of my clients and i mailed moneybookers support to confirm and they confirmed that US customers cannot pay international customers anymore.
Dec 21st, 2008 at 11:23 am
Hi folks,
I have a client who can only pay me via WebMoney or by Western Union, which one would be best as a South African?
Looking forward to your response!
Chris M
Dec 21st, 2008 at 4:45 pm
The client is stalling you because they have no intention of paying what they committed themselves to pay you.
I’ll guess that this is none other than Zvi Cohen, who approached me to display his banner ads and upon conclusion of our negotiations failed to make the payment he promised.
The easiest way to get cash from overseas is via International bank transfer. You need to give them you bank’s branch code, your account number and the bank’s SWIFT code. You will be charged about R100 bank fees.
Personally, I believe Zvi Cohen to be a fraud.
Dec 21st, 2008 at 5:01 pm
My lawyer will be in touch with him on Monday, so we’ll see what happens from there..
Dec 22nd, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I am yet to find fault with moneybookers! love it! :)
PS: Too many frauds out there … sigh!
Dec 22nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm
@Chris: did you get sorted out today?
Dec 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 pm
@Richard – Not yet hey, just fired off another email!
Dec 27th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Hi everyone,
I’m a young infopreneur and student and have been quite fascinated with this thread that i have only stumbled upon today.
I’m in the process of starting a website involving affiliate links and google ads, and i also want to sell a digital product. I never realised what a mission this could turn out to be. Frankly i’m starting to feel discouraged.
I realised that most of the affiliate programs i signed up with can only pay me through paypal and after having trouble setting up an account i soon discovered that there was some kind of barrier.
So i guess i have to try and find other affiliates who send cheques via the post.
Dec 27th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
@Simon: Try ClickBank.
They pay by cheque. South Africans are welcome to join their network either to sell their products through ClickBank’s established affiliate network or publish affiliate links to earn commissions.
Dec 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
@Simon – Welcome to the frustration, drives me crazy every time I’m approached to do some advertising for a company. I’m honestly thinking of flying over to the UK, opening up and account so that I can get PayPal. Fortunately, I’ve got a British passport, so it’s a little easier for me, but still very expensive!
Jan 11th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Hi again y’all,
Happy New Year and hope we all have a wonderful prosperous year!
I was speaking to a friends of mine of our problem and they recommended one of the following:
http://www.mygate.co.za
or
http://www.iveri.com
My current opinion:
mygate – I am liking them, they don’t charge a percentage of a transaction, just per transaction but the pricing is a little vague on the other payment methods.
iVeri – I’m just being an honest consumer when I say that..and here it goes… their site sucks gahones… I shall explain. There is no pricing that I can see, they use a lot of technical jargon about their features which is not such a bad thing for techies but then they’ve got a whole array of products which don’t have any practical examples of how to get started (in that case, I’m guessing you have to meet them face to face?) and under their downloads section, there is no description of what the stuff there is for. By looking around their download section, it seems that they’re also a “Microsoft or Java fan” but what if I’m running php??
Ok ok, so maybe I’m just whining a bit as maybe I’m not the kind of customer they’re catering for as they’re already dishing out “over 1.6 million transactions a month to the value of +-USD100,000,000″.
You would think that cos they “represent” Nedbank, that they would hire a decent web developer to sort out their mess?! Anyone keen to help them?
Anyhoo, so I just wanted to know y’all opinions about them, seeing as how were all practically family after reading and contributing to this lot. I reckon it should be an achievement or we should all be able to stamp our sites with a “proudly SA e-merchants by iMod” logo (maybe Chris can provide?)
Jan 15th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Ya, the shit thing about using setcom is your customer is forced to sign up for a setcom buyer account before they can make a credit card payment.
Where as with paypal, your customer isn’t required to have a paypal account to make a credit card payment.
How well is setcom known around the world? Hardly I would think?
This I think could deter international customers on your site. Especially if you require sign up on your site, then they have to sign up again with setcom just to make a payment.
Jan 15th, 2009 at 11:55 am
I think its racist!
Jan 16th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Bugger.
I’m trying to raise money (locally and internationally) to fund a project I’m busy with, and to donate to a charity.
Charging $10 per spot, I was hoping to use Paypal to raise the funds, but after reading through the posts, the light at the end of the tunnel is more of an oncoming train …
Any suggestions (other than the grey “register a Swiss account and hope Paypal doesn’t nail you”) ?
Jan 16th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Clen,
Use Setcom or AlertPay
Jan 16th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Hi Morne,
My problem with using Setcom or AlertPay is that getting overseas people (specifically) to sign up to a new and unfamiliar service just to donate $10 won’t work.
The idea is you like what you see and quickly donate $10. Having to then wander off to another site to register, wait for the mail, fill out the forms etc. etc. means I lose the purchaser.
Unfortunately PayPal has the brand recognition and ease of use for most overseas people.
I’ll check out AlertPay though (used Setcom a while back for something else, don’t like them). Worth a try, thanks.
Jan 16th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Valid Point Clen.
Setcom not too well known internationaly except maybe the UK.
But AlertPay is quite well known, thousands of internet marketers use AlertPay :)
And you have no trouble getting your money.
Just make sure to sign-up for the business account(Also Free) this allows you to set up mutiple business’ all using different Company names, all from the one account.
I have never had any problems getting sign-up’s and sales using AlertPay http://www.hidden-gold-mine.com works great launched today and already have sign-ups, officially only launch at the end of the month though with a whole combination of programs and goodies.
Jan 16th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Please take note everyone, Morne used an affiliate link in the link he placed above. I have naturally removed it so just take that into account when he said it’s a great system, he was pushing his own project..
No offense Morne, we’re trying to avoid that sort of thing bud.
Jan 16th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
No Prob Chris you are welcome to remove the link, no offense take :), I was just illustrating that AlertPay works very well, I use it on my hosting site for payments as well and have never had any problems as compared to PayPal and some of the other payment providers.
Jan 19th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Dude, thanks for the clearest and most recent page on this whole paypal thing. One question, you say we can send to stores likes amazon etc, can we send to other general paypal users and small stores or is it only the big boys?
Tnx,
Daryl
Jan 19th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
@Daryl: You can use your South African PayPal account to pay anyone, from individuals to companies.
Furthermore, despite the restriction on receiving funds, if your PayPal transaction is refunded, it does not get returned to your PayPal account. Instead PayPal reverses the charge it made to your credit card, so you get your money back usually within 48 hours.
Jan 20th, 2009 at 7:15 am
Btw, I discovered a hot tip when using PayPal to pay a foreign invoice – you can choose between PayPal doing the forex conversion for you or allowing your bank to do it. It looks like my bank offers a better rate, but sometimes they adjust later, so I’ll let you know whether it worked out cheaper or not for me. As of right now, though, I did save.
Jan 20th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I received an email from an iMod reader today, which was a response from PayPal, which verifies things..
—————————-
Dear Daryl Fuchs,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience. Due to the complexities of
global finance, we do not have a feature where PayPal users from your
country can receive payments as of now. Rest assured that we are working
on including this feature, so you can receive funds with your PayPal
account in the future.
For more information on individual country and region capabilities to
send and receive funds, visit https://www.paypal.com/ and click
Worldwide” in the footer of the page. To view all countries that cannot
receive payments, click the “190 countries” link. The countries listed
under “Send Money to Anyone in the Growing PayPal Network” can only send
payments.
Again, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this might cause you.
Please feel free to email us back if you have further questions.
Just to answer your quire:
What are South African citizens permitted to do?
South African citizens may open up a PayPal account – Yes
South African citizens may receive money – No (Not yet an option)
South African citizens may spend money in their PayPal account on stores
such as Amazon.com, etc. – Yes
What are South African citizens not permitted to do?
South African citizens may not receive money from their PayPal account
into a local account – Yes ( as of now you cannot yet receive or
withdraw funds.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Sheryl
PayPal, an eBay Company
Copyright © 1999-2009 PayPal. All rights reserved.
Consumer advisory – PayPal Pte. Ltd., the holder of PayPal’s stored
value facility, does not require the approval of the Monetary Authority
of Singapore. Users are advised to read the terms and conditions
carefully.
———————————–
So there we have it :(
Jan 21st, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Hi Guys
Can you receive Visa & Mastercard payments from international buyers into an alertpay account? Can you receive paypal payments into an alertpay account? What is western union & check payments that I see certain sellers accepting?
Thanks for a very informative thread.
Regards
JoeSoap
Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:05 am
@JoeSoap: You can indeed receive credit card payments into an AlertPay account from wherever they are.
AlertPay does not accept PayPal and vice versa.
Western Union is a wire service, with various restrictions.
Cheque payments are when someone mails you a cheque and you have to deposit it into your account as per usual. Foreign currency denominated cheques will incur additional bank fees and you will have to fill out a forex form at your branch when you deposit it. There is also a lengthier waiting period for a foreign cheque to clear. Goods should not be released until the cheque has cleared.
Jan 31st, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Hi There
I have just opened a Paypal account and my South African credit card was verified. i’m not sure how to transfer funds into Paypal as it only gives me an option of selecting a USA account.
Can anyone please help me.
Thank you
Jan 31st, 2009 at 2:01 pm
There seems to be a better alternative https://www.ikobo.com/as/money-transfer-south-africa.html
Jan 31st, 2009 at 3:19 pm
@Roche Smit: You don’t need to transfer funds into your PayPal account. Simply use it to pay for goods as and when you wish, and PayPal will use your credit card to fund the transaction.
If your transaction is refunded, PayPal will reverse the charge to your credit card.
Feb 18th, 2009 at 11:08 am
hi guys,
firstly – im a webdeveloper and have been doing online e-commerce and transactions for close to 6 years now.
1. the ONLY thing paypal has going for it is that so MANY international users have the account and it seems to instill a sense of trust when anyone needs to pay you. BUT – having used a friends paypal UK account to send / receive money…. it really isn’t a great way to go if you are selling online. the reason is that paypal is very happy to award CHARGEBACKS. that means people can simply make up a story about you not delivering and the money will be refunded to them. (ok – i know some people can be idiots and then you need a refund… but mostly people really are taking the sellers for a ride , especially if it is eproducts or payment for services).
also – they will block your account at a whim, meaning that if you are directing serious traffic to your site and are accepting payments, if they block you they have a very BIG RED notice saying that your account has been blocked. it is HORRIFIC because now, for no good reason, not only can you not accept payments but you also lose valuable customers who thinks you are a scam / robber and will never ever consider buying from you. in a very fragile online ecommerce environment, your reputation as a seller is priceless.
if i ever had a choice and the majority of international users could wake up and see how badly paypal sucks i will never use them, they are a real risk to sellers.
2. while all of us are complaining about withdrawal options, keep in mind that most of the world can get accounts with paypal but only US / UK can actually withdraw hard cash.
3. there are many many payment processors. i have personally used moneybookers for withdrawals to SA, no probs.
downside that both parties need to have a verified account?? NO, the exact same thing is required for paypal. you can send a grand total of $200 with your SA account (well actually any paypal account for that matter) before you need to be verified to send any more. you cannot withdraw, even if you are US / UK without being verified.
4. i have programmers sitting in india – i need to pay them and it is a hard thing getting $2000 at a time to pay deposits / programming fees. many international countries have different options to receive money that is VERY easy for SA to use. i pay them using XOOM, but i cannot receive funds.
5. also – whilst it can be a bit expensive, we now also have moneygram and western union in SA which brings us a step closer to international std. these 2 options are widely used worldwide. banks refused me when i needed to send a bank wire for services delivered by the programmers (you need to have a physical product in your hand or a very good reason for wanting to send money – and then they often have to go through reserve bank headquarters for authorization which can take up to 4 weeks and will cost you a non-refundable +/- R500 to try…if i remember correctly..), so i ended up walking accross the hall and doing a moneygram at std bank. 20 mins and the money was there.
6. have any of you had a look at ikobo.com – great site with a debit card that is sent to the recipient of the money and the card can be reloaded again and again.
7. we can sit here and complain all we want – bottom line is that SA needs to start catching up to international std and be more flexible when it comes to opening up SA to the world in terms of trade. if i had to pay tax on international funds that i receive for work (website design / prgramming etc that is my field) i will do so, but i first need to get the money to be able to do that. considering the economy, one would think they would want all the money possible to be traded. and honestly, as this is my job – i can even argue that lack of options is causing me to not create as many jobs as i can, simply because non-SA people cannot pay me for work they want me to do.
hope this helps – hope no one wants paypal… ;)
Feb 19th, 2009 at 12:18 am
Wow, gizelle, that’s totally awesome, thank you thank you for coming along and sharing all this valuable information with us!
Feb 20th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Hi all
Thanks for the great info! Im not sure if already discussed, but what about Amazon Payments? is it compatible with South Africa for withdrawing?
Ive had a look around the website, but cant really find anything about the countries it supports. Anyone know?
Thanks!
Feb 23rd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Nevermind, amazon payments requires USA bank account and USA address.
Mar 1st, 2009 at 9:44 am
Great thread with great links. Has anyone seen this one yet http://www.ebay.co.za ?Not sure if it still works as when I tried it now it redirects me to dot com. It seems they are trying to integrate Paypal with the SA Banks. Regarding AlertPay, I have also used it to transfer money into SA. Now I am looking for a payment gateway and this is great reading!!
Mar 1st, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Thanks for the post Jusrus,
I checked out ebay.co.za and the PayPal link on their site…
In terms of eBay “being here in SA”…
- to me, it just means that eBay has a shop in SA which can accept payments and guess what, the owner of eBay can withdraw their money from their PayPal account, why? Cos their bank account is in USA.
- don’t be mislead into thinking that we can withdraw money into our SA accounts now.
In terms of http://www.PayPal.com/ZA, I emailed them asking about the ability to withdraw into a SA account and will let y’all know as soon as they reply. Maybe they could have changed their standing on transfers to SA since the whole “recession” thing has occurred.
Someone please tell Obama to bail us out and get a law written so that PayPal must solve our woes. :)
TM
“Go team!”
Mar 5th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Hello ladies and gents
I’ve been following the comments here and i am proud to see that we have people who think like you. I’ve been having the same problem with paypal. If paypal doesn’t take us serious, let’t try to grow companies like http://www.alertpay.com and make it more recognised and used in websites as another payment option.
Alertpay is not popular but the fact that you can recieve, withdraw and send makes it good for me and probably other users like me.
Finally let’s try to get south african public talking about it so that we can get answers. The way to do this is
1. To bombard the minister with same context e-
mails asking about the paypal issue.
2. We raise this issue on television & radio shows that talk about the economy or finance.
3. Comment on the newspaper, magazine and radio discussion forums/blogs
4. we publish notices in our schools, companies and other relevent places to make them aware of the issue.
5. ….. Please add!!!
And please let us share e-mails so that we inform each other about any thing, that could be a radio/TV show, where they talk about this so that we can try to call and have our inputs.
Mar 6th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
..fly to the UK … stay with someone you know…open a UK bank account & ask the person you staying with if you can use his address as the postal address in the UK. Setup a Paypal acc with your new UK bank account. fly home with the ATM card and withdraw funds from any South African ATM with your UK card at a very low rate.
…works fine…just remember to setup online banking in the UK before you travel home.
*I actually got my UK bank to change my address to my Cape town Address and they did.
They even gave me the option of claiming tax back as I’m am no longer a UK resident. Hehe :-)
They even sent me a new replacement card for the next 4 years last August from the UK.
Mar 6th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Forget about Paypal, their policies are too self serving.
2CO works but again, their policies. You must see the list of “prohibited stuff”. And they are serious about it!
Alertpay looks good, but comes with glitches. Probably the best off the three.
But Chris, I think the question this raises, and maybe you want to take this up in another blog (apologies if you have already:) is do you want to bring your money back to South Africa? How safe is our money here? Is it not safer to leave some, if not most, of your capital off-shore? What are the tax implications of doing this, anyone know?
Mar 6th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
@Malcolm – Bud, I’ve actually thought of doing that to be honest. I’ve got a british passport and plenty of family in the UK, I just haven’t had the “spare change” in my pocket to quickly fly over, nor the time, but it’s definitely the best thing to do. Awesome to hear that the bank will change the address to your Cape Town one, which bank was it?
@Neteneur – Agreed, I must admit, keeping the money overseas is a good idea. But the main problem here is that so many people use PayPal, that it’s really in the sellers best practise to offer it. I whip out my credit card and use it online without much worry, in the same regard, most people overseas are accustomed to doing this with their PayPal accounts, therefore not offering it could lead to fewer sales souly based on not providing the ease of use :)
Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Hi All.
I live in SA, Got a Bank account in UK, and uses Paypal.
I withdraw cash at any autobank Here.
I only cannot transfer money into an SA account.
I would have prefered NOT to use Paypal, but it is a trusted Monopoly(Unfrotunatly) that belongs to eBay.
Setcom and others can keep your money.and DO.
The reason why people do not ship to South Africa is Paypal policies… The customer is always right.
If a client does not recieve his goods, Paypal refund him at the expense of the seller.
I am utilising the exchange rate to my own advantage, and can offer a world wide service.
Regards Herman
Mar 12th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Hello Again
I want to Make programming lessons that i am going to sell online but the only problem i have is how am i going to do it since paypal is like this.
Can anyone advice me how to go about it interms of being able to recieve the money.
Note: I am a stuent, i do not have a credit card.
How do i go about it guyz?
Mar 12th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Get yourself a Cheque account and Cheque Card from Nedbank. If you go through Standard Bank and FNB then you need to specifically ask for the Cheque card. Make sure the person behind the counter understand that this card must have an expiry date and CCV number. You should be ok then. BTW Nedbank seems to be the cheepest.
Mar 24th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Good day friends, once again I’d like to thank you all for your wonderful comments on my website – it means so much to me to know that I’ve provided an interesting forum for discussion.
The South African Blog Awards have come around again and I’ve been nominated this year – I need your support – Please would you vote for me by visiting this link and following the instructions – http://www.imod.co.za/vote/helpvote.html
Once again, thank you all for your support!
Mar 31st, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Hi all
Did you see ebay launched an ebay.co.za site, displaying ZAR. Is this maybe the start of us getting a proper Paypal service?
I also have products to sell and would like to do it on ebay as they rank no1 in the world, but its a schlep to sell it on ebay as they try and keep it paypal only.
Mar 31st, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Hi all
@Wilco- You can sell now on ebay if you want to, just hell expensive. Its not like bid or buy where you only pay a success fee, for a listing you pay also when you sell something.
Feebay accept Moneybookers since last month so go and list on ebay. If you want to accept PP and all major credit cards join CCNOW.com, they are cheaper than our local merchant accounts.
Next problem is your shipping from here, very expensive and the PO, you can’t trust. I list stuff last month on feebay, got bids on all my listings but didn’t got my reserve price.
Hope this help, any questions please ask.
Apr 7th, 2009 at 11:33 am
The Paypal issue is concerning. This is definately the most informative section on this issue I have come across.
Be it Paypal who chooses not to pay South Africans or the South African side not allowing it, is not really the great issue.
Internationally to make money with Affiliate Marketing with most programs, one needs a Paypal account to get paid. To sell your own product, digital or otherwise, most people trust Paypal. Yet South Africans cannot receive money from Paypal
This seems like the old days of economic sanctions, where South Africans are cut off from the rest of the world.
The workarounds, like 2checkout and others may work provided that you operate within their stringent policies, pay high fees or patiently wait for bug fixes.
South Africans seem to be excluded from freely partaking in Internet Marketing. We seem to be largely confined to programs that are willing to pay be cheque.
How archaic is that?
Apr 24th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Try http://www.ikobo.com they send you a debit card and people are able to deposit money into it from all over the world using there credit cards. It’s not perfect but it’s beter than nothing. All you ahve to do is go to any ATM and withdraw the money.
May 9th, 2009 at 11:12 am
I got curious about the eBay.co.za posting above. So I contacted eBay via their live chat and asked if I could sell on eBay and be paid out via a Paypal account (’cos that’s what the site says you can do). They simply referred me to Paypal’s support.
So I mailed Paypal support and asked the same question. And guess what they said? They referred me to eBay support!
So basically things are not ‘as stated’ on eBay.co.za. In fact, from my perspective, it doesn’t look like South Africans can actually fully benefit from eBay.co.za. Maybe this even calls for a concerted boycott. Why should they be able to setup a “south african” site that doesn’t benefit South Africans?
May 14th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Hi, i just bought a item off ebay.co.za when i tried to pay for the item it accepts paypal. so i created a account on pay pal website. Yet, why is it they don’t accept debit cards. there websites says they accept debit cards yet, its reserved for USA resident only.
So i am stuck now, how do i pay for this item, as i don’t have a credit card i just closed them a few weeks ago? Can anyone assist with alternative payment options? the total i have to pay is a mere 16 pounds. yet the bank has quaoted me a total of R200 just to send a swift which means this product price just went through the roof.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
hi Denis,
well basically we are back to being SA stuck in the stone age. almost all international debit cards LOOK like credit cards, with your name imprinted on the card, and expiry date and and cvv # at the back with a visa / mastercard logo (all bright ans shiny) – which enables you to use them like a credit card.
in SA for you to use this, you will need
1. a check account
2. to go to your bank and ask for a check card (explain to them very clearly what you want to do with the card and take the name of the person helping you) – you dont need a check BOOK at all
i am not sure if there are savings accounts that offer this – maybe there is but not that i know of. i am with fnb and they have been very helpful. as far as i know they are now as a std issuing these “new” debit cards as a standard with new check accounts. wont hurt to ask up front to be sure.
i have been usign my debit card now for almost a year doing paypal purchases etc with no probs.
just a final note – and one i learned the hard way. add your card as soon as you have it. you will need to verify the card on your paypal account with a procedure etc that is quite easy but schlep which will take about 3 days. THEN you will still have limits imposed on your account – like you can only spend $300 per week, or whatever they feel is “safe” until you have established yourself as a legit customer that uses your card responsibly and without chargebacks etc. they dont have any guidelines for this upfront. they basically thumbsuck when and how much you can spend, for however long. for basic stuff like online memberships and small stuff however you shouldnt have trouble.
yep, dont like paypal a lot. yep, still stuck with them. but i must be fair and say that they are quite fair when it comes to exchange rates. it works out about R0.10 per dollar cheaper than a couple of other payment methods. (to know up front how much you will be charged, a good estimate will be: check the exchange on xe.com and add R0.30 per dollar). some that i have worked with charge about R0.45 above the exchange. transactions fees still a b****ch though :)
hope this helps.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Thanks Gizelle, just a quick question how did you get your debit card details registered with them.? I tried to fill in my account details etc, and kept on declining it? I spoke to fnb, what a bunch of idiots, the check card you are refering to is the one they were suppose to get me but for some reason something went wrong and they gave me a standard visa electron card. will pay pal accept that card ? this is a standard check account that i have.
Thanks
May 14th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
hi Denis,
nope – sorry.
you will need a card with your name, expiry date, visa / mastercard logo and cvv number – all the things that are on a credit card.
(our debit cards only have that long card number and nothing else basically)
my suggestion will be to go IN to a fnb, sit there while a consultant does the application. TAKE THEIR name with a friendly non-threatening reminder that if the card is not correct you will be following up with THEM (no one wants that – so if they know they will be directly accountable for a balls up they will make sure it goes right). also tell them very clearly that you will NOT pay for issuing of a card that is incorrect, errors will be for their account.
also tell them what card you have and that it is incorrect, and also what you need.
im sorry the answer is not simpler.
as for adding a card on paypal (once you have the correct type card) – you will go to profile > add card > enter all the details there like a credit card.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Thanks for the info i will be leaving work in a few minutes to go and play a game of “my foot your bum are about to meet” with FNB at the Glen.
Thanks for all you help.
Just another question what is a charge back you mentioned?
May 14th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
basically a chargeback is like TAKING a refund when you paid with a credit card.
so i buy a book from you, online, with my cc. now for whatever reason i want my money back. you wont give me a refund. i simply go to my bank and do a chargeback. my bank FORCES the money back from YOUR account and voila – chargeback.
paypal is famous for the non-action in this matter. to them it does not matter that you were willing to give me a refund. it does not even matter that the book you sent me was 100% correct and exactly what i wanted. paypal just says: fine- we dont really care what the circumstances are, we are fine with the chargeback, they will freeze your account (and all funds in it, and close it) and i will probably get a slap on the wrist and limits on my account, and both of us will pay a lot of fees for the chargeback transaction.
often the buyer is wronged, and most of the time the consequences are a bit inconsistent. sometimes both accounts are frozen. sometimes the dispute resolution procedures that paypal offers actually works. mostly it is a helluva headache. and mostly accounts are frozen.
if it sounds crazy and mixed up and non-sensical. well, it is.
btw: netcash (sa cc processor) will fight any and all chargebacks on behalf of their client. much more reliable. only after they have exhausted all possible avenues will they allow a chargeback, and only if their client was in the wrong. some things truely are proudly south african.
May 16th, 2009 at 11:27 am
I need help people.
I want to charge people a monthly fee for accessing certain info from sites that I’ve got, videos, mp3 downloads etc.
I was attracted to netcash, because they are reasonably priced, for where I’m at in my business cycle.
But they don’t do recurring transactions easily.
I tried alertpay, they do it easily but don’t have Mastercard yet :(
Which of the South African Payment Gateways will easily allow me to set this up on my sites?
Thanks so much :)
May 16th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
hi Haroun,
it is easy to do monthly debit orders with netcash – and there are quite a few ways to setup your website to do accept monthly payments without issues. the same is true for alertpay and a couple of others. netcash is most reasonably priced.
the solution, my personal opinion, is in site setup rather than payment gateway options. if you dont want a debit order option you simply set it up to require payment if the subscription period is expired.
if you need help, as this is a bit off topic, you might want to contact me via my website with more info and i will get back to you. not sure if the web address will display on the blog now – if not, just repost and i will post it here.
May 17th, 2009 at 11:51 am
I have just finished reading all the posts. I have found this blog very informative and interesting! I just want to ask someone who might know more than I do (as I actually know very little about all this)
I am wanting to start selling jewellery on etsy, I live in SA. Most of the sellers and buyers use paypal, however I have noticed that all the SA sellers use setcom.
But, I want to know if I will be able to transfer money received from etsy sales from my setcom account to my FNB account?
Thanks.
May 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am
OR… would u suggest another site I use, other than setcom.
Thanks!
May 17th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Ok, so now I really have a problem. I cannot sell silver jewellery through setcom. Its not allowed!
What other options are there to receive payment from overseas clients, and transfer it into my local account?
May 18th, 2009 at 9:35 am
have you tried netcash – maybe just phone them and hear.
May 18th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Hello All,
Haroun; Locally MyGate.co.za can do recurring payments too, I’ll show you how next time you come around! In terms of international gateways, Alertpay is really the only option for us!
Jinjer; I deal with 90% international clients and have a solution but I won’t discuss it here. Click my icon, it should take you to my site. Use the contact us to send me a mail, if you are interested.
May 18th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Thanks Neteneur, I guess I’ll see you tomorrow :)
Gizelle, I left a message via your site, did you get it?
Have a good day everyone!
May 18th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
I would just like to say that setcom has been very helpful to me in regard to obtaining info about their site, who can sell what etc etc.
support@setcom.com if anyone wants to know anything.
May 26th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
I have a paypal account that I use to buy from eBay often. I can receive money in the account but I cannot xfer it into my SA account. I have had money refunded to me by sellers that were held in my paypal account as ‘paypal credit’. I have also got some money-back bonuses from eBay that was also credited to my paypal account. I cannot withdraw the money but can use if for purchases on any site that accepts paypal. I wish that SA account holders can withdraw money from paypal into local bank accounts though…
But as you see, that is wishful thinking on my part!
May 27th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Hi Jinger,
I got your mail and have tried to reply but I think you made a typo on the return address. It keeps bouncing with “unknown recipient”! Mail me directly on webmaster[at]tradeshack75 dot com please.
Jun 8th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Hi all
Thanks for the great info! Really great ;-) Been struggling with PayPoop for weeks now.
Just a quick word on banks:
Radicals – Capitec is THE CHEAPEST BANK in SA @ the moment, like way,waaayyy cheaper than anyone else (why do we pay bank charges anyway? America switched to free banking in 1874; UK & Europe – also no charges for deposits, withdrawal etc & no monthly fees)
Dennis – The Capitec “Global One Gold Card” – a Maestro debit card that effectively works as a credit card – has a card number and expiry date and they assured it me I can use it to open a PayPal account (although I havn’t actually done that – decided to go with http://www.swreg.org instead)
Jun 8th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
hello Christoan
You mean Capitec accept paypal?
Jun 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 am
Hello all
I’m writing an article on this for Moneyweb. If you have any *specific information* I’d be interested to receive it. I have (vague) comments from PayPal and the Reserve Bank and am piecing facts together. It’s a vexing issue and I’m addressing it on Moneyweb because we need to get some clarity on the matter. If you’re received any comments from PayPal, the Reserve Bank, SARS or your bank that could assist me, that would be great. (Am going to subscribe to your blog, Chris!)
You can write to me at fionaz at mweb dot co dot za
Jun 22nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
I would be very intersted in reading this article too. I have also approached PayPal and my local bank on receiving foreign cheques into the country. All very vaugue.
Jun 22nd, 2009 at 11:41 am
Will be interesting to see how the article turns out! Keep me posted please Fiona :)
Jun 27th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Be aware of Paypal they are a bunch of crooks
Jun 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Why do you say that John?
Jun 28th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
I am still a bit uncertain about PayPal, according to my enquiries, I cannot receive any money into my South African PayPal account, Some still tell me that one can get paid into it and spend it via the account.
Yet PayPal directly told me this is not possible. I am just curious whether this situation had changed or if PayPal will allow people to pay into the PayPal account.
As far as receiving money into the local bank account via PayPal nothing has changed, its just with the gathering of credit within the account, that I keep getting mixed information.
Can anyone please give me a final answer please?
Jun 28th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
@Alex – You can receive funds into your account, but you cannot withdrawl them in South Africa. That’s my understanding.
I stand for correction..
Jun 28th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Shot Chris!
We need to verify, because they told me straight out no not possible, but some people tell me differently.
Thanks
Jun 28th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I’ve tested this with a Sponsored Review that I did on my blog. I chose the PayPal method to be paid, and in my Sponsored Review account, there’s the $6 that was paid to my PayPal account.
But no cash in my PayPal. I also thought that I could receive money into my account, but not transfer into my SA account, but (for me at least) this is not so.
Pity :)
Jun 28th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Thanks Haroun, the proof is in the pudding and you’ve proved it, thank you!
So what you can do from South Africa is make payments online using your PayPal and the amount is taken from your credit card – This I have done tons of times.
Jun 28th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
I posted an article on digitaljournal about South Africa’s big 5 becoming the big 7. Either way they will pay me only via PayPal once my credit reaches $10, they told me that if I cant get paid into my account I must maybe use someone else’s account or make another plan, but this just causes hassles.
That is just one example, where the money is not important, but south Africans or smaller countries are being left behind in partaking in normal standard internet activities.
Jun 29th, 2009 at 12:06 am
Absolutely. Paying via EFT will end up costing them too much. I’ve run into this problem before, so what I did was pretty much force the company to write and post a cheque. In the end they did :)
Jun 29th, 2009 at 5:55 am
Alex, writing for content sites poses a problem. If you want to continue to write for them, you’ll have to find a friend overseas, redirect your earnings to them and ask them to keep your $$$ safe till you have enough for them to make a swift transfer into your bank account.
If it is a one-off, you could, like Chris suggests, twist their arm to write a cheque or do bank transfer.
I’m a writer – I have a kind friend in the USA who is my Paypal “bank”.
I’m also working with my local Chamber of Commerce to lobby Government to change this ridiculous situation that puts online smmes in such a terrible position.
Jul 1st, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Hi Guys, I have been running square circles with this for the past 8 months. I was advised to open a Xoom.com account, direct your withdrawal into your PayPal account (in other words draw your earnings in PayPal down into Xoom) – then Xoom.com your money into South Africa, they deal with most of our banks.
Flowchart = Your Money in PayPal withdrawal request in Xoom (withdraw up to $2 999) : Xoom to SA Bank.
“If you choose to use Paypal, you’ll be prompted to sign-in to your Paypal account. (In other words you authorize withdrawal out of PayPal to an American Bank Xoom – this is there instruction) – Authorization for these funding sources reaches Xoom very quickly – usually it is within a few minutes and then your money transfer will be on it’s way.” PS: I HAVE NOT TRIED THIS YET – BUT IT LOOKS FEASIBLE. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE with this ongoing SAGA-Hangaas..
Jul 2nd, 2009 at 1:02 am
MoneyWeb says..
South Africans unable to receive foreign currency earnings through e-commerce provider PayPal will receive no joy in the foreseeable future. This is the message Moneyweb received after taking up the matter with both PayPal and the SA Reserve Bank.
Although PayPal serviced South Africans a few years ago, allowing South Africans to make payments since June 2005, it only permits South Africans to send money out of the country but not to receive it, leaving many South African businesses and entrepreneurs in the lurch as PayPal is the biggest, most widely used e-commerce platform in the world.
PayPal claims it “cannot fully support our customer base in South Africa” – South Africans have been able to make payments to overseas customers since June 2005, but cannot allow South Africans to receive funds.
“We continue to seek ways to resolve this issue, but until such time that we are able to adequately support a growing community of customers in South Africa, we feel that the only ethical course of action is to support our existing clients to the fullest of our abilities, while accepting no new business,” PayPal said in a statement.
Meanwhile, the Reserve Bank maintains that PayPal does not meet its FOREX requirements:
“The provisions of Exchange Control Regulation 2(1) expressly prohibit foreign exchange transactions other than through an Authorised Dealer in foreign exchange, i.e. a commercial bank,” a Reserve Bank representative said this week. “Since the payments are not effected from PayPal via the banking system to the South African beneficiary, we would not be agreeable thereto.”
However, since e-commerce businesses like Xoom, Moneybookers and 2CheckOut are able to remit funds (the writer has personally received funds from a US client via Xoom), it seems possible that South Africa has simply been ‘blacklisted’ by PayPal. The Reserve Bank is, technically speaking, more concerned about money leaving the country than entering it; and it is curious that South Africans can send money via PayPal without facing restrictions.
Justin Harrison, an internationally recognised internet marketing expert, feels that PayPal is largely to blame for its limited functionality in South Africa. With his own business affected, he set out to interrogate the e-commerce provider. “Four years, 200 emails and 50 telephone calls later, I still haven’t received a satisfactory answer from them,” he says. “I believe it’s a case of something they would probably rather not state openly – that they consider IP-based traffic from South Africa – and Africa – to be ‘high risk’. I believe their risk-aversion policy is what is preventing them from doing business with us.”
The truth is difficult to ascertain, but one thing is clear – as long as you live in South Africa, you will be unable to receive monies via PayPal, even if your business is based overseas.
“It seems hard to have had my US-registered business discriminated against because I live in South Africa and have to use a South African-based IP address, which means my US PayPal account was converted to a South African PayPal account, despite my protestations,” Harrison says. “Surely the whole appeal of any internet-based system is its freedom from traditional geographic constraints?”
Given that South Africans appear to be shut out, it’s ironic that PayPal co-founder Elon Musk is South African. A case of ‘by South Africa, but not for South Africa’?
Jul 6th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Hi Chris,
Do you know if ANY country in Africa is PayPal approved?
We have many business interests all over Africa (excluding Nigeria – we learned the hard way:).
We are launching a Sim Card based Mobile Bank with transfers between country capabilities. This could be a angle to explore.
It’s currently in pilot phase in Delft & Zim, we hope to provide free bank services to rural areas, but if we can hook in Paypal somewhere…
Jul 13th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
This errs on the side of rediculous… and YES I fully understand and appreciate all this hassle South Africans experience with PayPal as we have exactly the same problem in Mauritius… Eventually we just created our own payment system and it works like a dream.
We receive money from anywhere in the world (187 countries) and once a day it gets credited directly in to our US$ account of our Mauritius domiciled business. this link may be useful to some of you. http://www.flexeworld.com/default.aspx?PageID=12
Thanks Chris M for hosting such a great discussion.
I say “Vote with your feet” .. find and use alternatives if PayPal choose to treat us Africans as criminals.
Jul 13th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Glad this has been started again, let’s hope to harvest some fresh, new and up-to-date information..
Aug 4th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Finally 2checkout :-)
So sick of using moneybookers and SWIFT…
Aug 4th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Ye Stuart, it’s great news!
Aug 4th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I still have a preference for using SWIFT bank codes, because then there is no chance of the buyer taking their funds back later.
That is the problem one faces when dealing with any third party credit card processor – chargebacks.
Aug 4th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Yeah, about chargebacks… does anyone know of a payment gateway that has a policy/rule like “no chargebacks for items less than R (x amount)” or something similar?
Aug 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
That’s a good point Richard, and I’m sure many people over look that. The problem here, though, is surely that online payments as the topic, are being left out with just direct transfers?
Aug 11th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Another interesting article I found..
Reaching consumers in the US and Europe is a big dream of South African crafters and other small manufacturers.
It should be easy to do in this wired world — but whenever I’ve dabbled with trying to earn dollars or euros, I’ve hit the snag that there simply seems to be no cost-effective way of doing small cross- border transactions affordably.
Take eBay, for instance. The virtual flea market bought PayPal after it emerged as the favourite transaction means between sellers too small to afford credit card merchant accounts and buyers often too young to have credit cards anyway.
In the early days of the Internet, after reading about eBay, I decided to auction off some old board games and comic books. I found ready buyers in the US and UK for my junk, but hit the snag that, while South Africans can buy stuff via PayPal, the service does not work the other way.
I checked PayPal’s website while writing this article, and nothing has changed in the ensuing decade. PayPal still only lets South African send money, not receive it.
So even if I were to repeat my experiment with eBay now, I would be forced to get paid in old-fashioned cheques. When I auctioned my trash, much of it fetched small amounts, like 6. When I tried to deposit the cheques, the bank teller told me I may as well throw them away since the charges on foreign cheques were higher than the rands I’d get.
A thing that has always impressed me about doing business with Americans is their honesty. The people who posted me those 6 cheques e-mailed to ask why they had not been cashed. When I explained our horrendous bank fees, many insisted on posting cash (some of which even made it through our postal system, but there was no affordable way to convert these into rands).
This week, I had a reminder of the enormous red tape facing anyone trying to do cross-border business, when I got a cheque from Google for ads I carry on a hobby website, joeblog.co.za. Google offers to pay in the recipient’s local currency.
I’d assumed from my eBay experience that banks slapped hefty charges on foreign cheques to cover their forex charges. But it transpired that getting cheques in “ZAR” still costs the same R85 clearing charge it would have cost if it had been in dollars. In fact, a foreign currency cheque would have saved me having to queue twice — once to get it cleared by the bank’s forex teller, and a second time to deposit it in my account.
I wouldn’t mind the R85 foreign cheque charge Absa slapped me with if it did not amount to a 10% slice of the value of my Google payment, which only arrives about twice a year.
As a newspaperman, I’m fairly bitter about what Google has done to our industry. Classified advertising, once the bread and butter of print media, is now dominated by Google. If newspaper publishers had not lazily carried Google ads on the web spinoffs of their print publications, they would not be dying like flies now. We now find ourselves with Google pocketing nearly all the revenue from classified advertising while carrying none of the costs of producing content.
Like PayPal, Google will take South African money electronically if you want to buy advertising. I know this because I was posted a voucher claiming I had been given R700 “free” advertising. But it turned out I would have to pay Google at least R100 to claim this “free” offer.
That services like eBay and Google only work for South African consumers, not producers, creates openings for local entrepreneurs.
For instance, Standard Bank has launched a service branded “mimoney”. It lets parents transfer cash to their children’s cellphones, which the kids in turn can use to buy stuff from online retailer kalahari.net, ringtones from eXactMusic, or top up airtime and MXit accounts.
The product has initially been aimed at teenagers, with Standard Bank focusing on signing up merchants like Ster-Kinekor and Mr Delivery.
My impression of mimoney is that it is just an electronic gift voucher, but John Campbell, who heads Standard’s Beyond Payments division, said gaining regulatory approval required overcoming a great deal of reluctance from the Reserve Bank.
With PayPal operating as a one-way street, only allowing South Africans to send but not receive money, mimoney stands a chance of becoming a local equivalent within South Africa.
Campbell hopes to achieve this by making it easy for local online retailers to accept mimoney. Although the transaction fees Standard Bank charges for accepting mimoney are similar to those on credit cards, the rules are less onerous than for credit card merchant accounts.
Standard Bank’s mimoney, along with competing local virtual currencies like First National Bank’s loyalty programme eBucks, offer alternatives to PayPal within South Africa. But they do not enable cross-border trade, and the US, Europe and China are far bigger markets for home-grown products than the rand territory.
We may roll our eyes and windows up at the wooden giraffes thrust at us by street crafters, but New Yorkers are very keen to buy these curios. I discovered this when an e-mail pen friend, after watching a rerun of Zulu (Michael Caine’s first movie) on TV, started nagging me to organise him a shield, for which he was happy to pay all costs.
He should have been able to buy this via the web, but couldn’t find an online curio seller. For me, buying the shield from a street trader was easy, but getting customs clearance turned out to be impossible (there was no box to tick for ‘Zulu shield’).
We have an alarmingly high infant mortality rate of start-ups in this country, which I blame on a national tendency of putting the needs of government and bank bureaucrats above all.
via The Times
Aug 11th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Interesting opinion by Robert Laing, Chris.
However, I don’t think it’s fair to blame Google for newspapers losing out on ad revenue.
I generally observe that South Africans themselves are solely to blame for missing out on the opportunities afforded us all by the new digital age we live in.
Take something as simple as finding accommodation. If you advertise accommodation on the CapeAds.com web site alone, you will get very few calls, but if you advertise in the print edition, you will get many calls.
South Africans are behind the times because they are not early adopters of new technology whereas Americans and Europeans are.
I can’t explain the reluctance of South Africans to fully exploit the Internet in their daily lives. In America, old people aged 80 use facebook to connect with their families. In South Africa, people of 60 consider using facebook as beneath them.
So, the real reason we don’t have more companies catering to us, is our own fault – not enough of us are interested in using the Internet, even 14 years after it became available to our general public.
Maybe in 100 years time, most South Africans will want to use the Internet as part of their daily lives. But right now, most South Africans are still stuck in the cell phone age and unwilling to explore beyond that.
Aug 11th, 2009 at 10:40 am
I agree fully with you Richard – I cannot tell you how many people I have tried to drag into the electronic age – too many journalists and other communicators and they won’t go beyond using e-mail and occasionally Google. (They like to hold a newspaper…)
The Pay-Pal issue sticks in my craw and makes me mad on a daily basis because I ear a lot of my income writing for overseas blogs and websites and my life would just be so much less complicated if I could be paid directly via PayPal.
Aug 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Ye Karen, incredibly annoying for all of us. Did you read the article I published by 2CheckOut, which is aiming at helping Saffers out?
Here’s the link – http://imod.co.za/index.php/2009/08/03/2checkout-helping-south-africans-with-online-payments/
Aug 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Hi all
I’ve been following this thread on and off for some time now and forgive me if this is something that’s been attempted and I’m not aware of it…. but – what if all organizations and heads of industries got together and formulated a mass campaign to deal with the PAYPAL/SA issue?
I’m part of the photography and film industries, am on the board of two organizations and know all of the orgs governing my industries.
What if we got the clothing, manufacturing, small businesses, tourism, music, fashion, media, etc industries together and we formulated a way forward, working with SARS to navigate around the problem?
How does the UK/US etc tax people on income earned through PAYPAL? Lets copy them. What if SARS could request copies of our PAYPAL accounts in much the same way they do with our normal bank accounts? That way, they can see how much comes in and tax us as they usually do??? It seems absurd that they would turn tax revenue away!
what you think????
n
Aug 12th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Hi all
I opened a paypal account in Australia (AUD) and linked my south african rand priced shopping cart to the paypal account. My problem now is that when i try to process an order on the website it gives me the following error message:
“This recipient does not accept payments denominated in WS_Error_XClick_Pref_Foreign_Currency. Please contact the seller and ask him to update his payment receiving preferences to accept this currency”.
I have been following your posts above and i dont see the reason why my Australian account does not work. Could it be the denomination of my store (ZAR) that is making it void.
Aug 12th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
The background of the post above is the website is in Joomla, South African registered and have a Virtuemart shopping cart. I then linked the Virtuemart to paypal since it has that option. My paypal account is registered in Australia and it offloads to an Australian account.
Kindly help, don’t know where I am going wrong.
Aug 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
hi tan,
dont think it is relevant for this post, but for what it is worth – you will need to in your aus paypal account select that you accept multiple currencies, and then on your virtuemart / joomla work with that currency. the error you are getting is in fact related to you wanting to accept ZAR and your paypal account cannot handle that currency.
ps: virtuemart has tons of plugins enabling you to use most any payment processor. including the friendly ones like alertpay, moneybookers and proudly south african netcash. why not stick to them.
good luck getting your money out of your aus paypal acc. the moment they even get whiff of the fact that you may be in sa your account will be suspended, your funds frozen and after a long hard battle you will remain on the losing side.
Aug 12th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
payfast.co.za accepts credit cards now. They don’t, however, accept paypal.
Aug 12th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Hi all
I’ve been following this thread on and off for some time now and forgive me if this is something that’s been attempted and I’m not aware of it…. but – what if all organizations and heads of industries got together and formulated a mass campaign to deal with the PAYPAL/SA issue?
I’m part of the photography and film industries, am on the board of two organizations and know all of the orgs governing my industries.
What if we got the clothing, manufacturing, small businesses, tourism, music, fashion, media, etc industries together and we formulated a way forward, working with SARS to navigate around the problem?
How does the UK/US etc tax people on income earned through PAYPAL? Lets copy them. What if SARS could request copies of our PAYPAL accounts in much the same way they do with our normal bank accounts? That way, they can see how much comes in and tax us as they usually do??? It seems absurd that they would turn tax revenue away!
what you think????
n
Aug 15th, 2009 at 3:40 am
I found this page today and read most of it before getting to frustrated and skipped to the end.
We are sitting in the same boat here in Namibia in terms of the PayPal issue, never mind the poor or not so poor guy from Nigeria. I feel for him just as I do for the next guy that is being discriminated against. Why should everybody not have a chance at the pie. No wonder some people hate the US and things like apartheid.
I have read most of the comments and believe that the prepaid credit card is the best suitable alternative as somebody mentioned already! Why are these not available here or in South Africa I have to wonder???
First National Bank has made debit cards available which work beautifully except for limiting the customers buying scope. I think it is only a matter of time before prepaid credit cards will catch on in Southern Africa and don’t understand why they have not already. Probably it is once again a matter of regulations or some big shots being afraid of loosing income which they probably don’t deserve in the 1st place. If everybody could pay with his debit / prepaid credit card, their would be no need for Paypal as this would minimize fraud and other concerns. Maybe VirginMoney already supplies such cards in South Africa but from what I browsed through they do MasterCard. Not sure which is better to have but I am under the impression VISA might be the best way to go. Never researched the matter because I only ever needed a credit card for internet transfers and was confronted by the bank to lay down lots of paperwork as prescribed by Bank of Namibia apparently.
Prepaid credit cards provide most of the benefits of a normal credit cards with the exception of not putting people in debt. People are nit bound to down payments! I appreciate the benefits credit have to offer but debt is one of the aspects I hate about credit cards. I do have a FNB debit card and except for not being able to get all the benefits of a credit card, this is the most wonderful thing since the invention of the refrigerator.
I have found a website called iKobo which facilitates FEDexing such a Prepaid Credit card to somebodies doorstep including but not limited to Namibia and South Africa but this is once again aimed at the US market and credit card holders with relatives over in under privileged countries. It does appear that anybody can use these facilities but bank account transfers to these facilities are only accommodated to US citizens. We can however pay with credit card considering that you trust iKobo.
I believe prepaid credit cards as served by banks would mostly eliminate the need for companies like PayPal should they be offered in South Africa, Namibia and yes, even Nigeria. They are commonly available in most of the 1st world countries, why not here?
The way I imagine it is to have at least one card which is used only for internet transfers. You would then basically transfer adequate funds onto the account of the card when needed which should take into consideration variations in exchange rates and banking fees to make a transfer to a supplier, relative, friend or whoever the money should be destined for. I believe that a institution like FNB should have no problem linking your check and credit card accounts so that you could transfer funds via electronic internet transfer such as Bankit offered by FNB.
Personally I hate credit cards as I consider them insecure but this depends on how and for what they are used. With PrePaid cards this hate could be transformed into a blossoming love, once again depending on how these cards are used. Obviously the technology holds its own dangers. IMHO (In my humble opinion) it probably is a win win win win win situation for everybody. The card holder wins because they can transfer funds internationally, via internet and also use the card at the ATM or cashier checkpoint etc. The bank or institutions supplying them win because they can deduct their service fees. SARS or whoever collects VAT wins because they should be able to track / monitor international transfers and can charge VAT etc. The supplier should be happy because they know that the funds have to be available. Unless I miss something, what would PayPal still be good for?
I would rather push for the availability and acceptance of international prepaid credit card. This would mean everybody could get a piece of the pie, even our Nigerian friend!
If some of the rumors regarding Paypal are correct I would be very cautious in terms of how I tread potential customers.
Perhaps one should get a Swiss Bank account with a Prepaid Credit Card????? What do you think?????
Aug 15th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Just so you copy loud and clear in terms of PayPal’s offering to South Africa and many other countries, I have written to them trying to figure out if one could somehow transfer funds onto my PayPal account without a credit card in/from South Africa or Namibia. This serves to see if I or anybody locally can do a transfer to a PayPal account as for one I don’t have and am truly not interested in a standard credit card. I have a business and my bank manager once suggested this service and I gladly refused at that stage.
Please also see my previous post regarding Prepaid Credit Cards (Not your normal credit card)as being the solution to Africa’s Paypal problems. I am still investigating a means of receiving payments from all over and perhaps prepaid credit card systems such as iKobo offer an answer. I hope to keep you informed on my findings after I had some time to investigate!
Here is my last correspondence with PayPay:
=============
Dear Volker Bause,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Hi, my name is Melody and I hope all is well with you. I do apologize
for the inconvenience and frustration it may have caused you. It is my
greatest pleasure assisting you today. First, please understand that
PayPal features vary in every country. As for PayPal account in South
Africa they can only add a US bank account or a credit/debit card on the
system. Please note that adding your local bank account in not an
option.
Please be informed that PayPal account in South Africa can only send
payment and will not be able to receive payment.
PayPal is constantly working to expand and improve our services for our
customers. We hope to expand our features for South Africa but due to
the complexities of global finance, we cannot give a timetable for this
expansion. I want you to know that this is not a reflection of your
standing as our customer but this is about the expansion of some
features that is not yet established to some countries that includes
yours.
For mor